When the Path Shifts: A Candid Conversation with Dr. Kaitlin Link

[00:00:00] Hey everybody. This conversation with Dr. Caitlin Link is a fascinating discovery of what happens when you allow your life's purpose, your mission to guide you. In so many ways, we follow the path sort of laid out for us. But what happens when you get to a point in your career and in your life when you say there's a new and there's a better way to do something?

[00:00:19] And, uh, so Caitlin is a former ER doctor. Spent many years in the ER helping fix what was wrong and people, you know, helping, helping people get over critical conditions in, in that moment of, of critical care. Two, pivoting and creating a business that's all about preventative healthcare and helping people understand that the data that's going on inside their bodies so that they can make the changes that they need to make to live the best life possible.

[00:00:46] So major pivot from doctor to Entrepreneur and the conversation along the way is fascinating. So. Uh, and inspirational, so hope you enjoy it. I did.

[00:00:55] Welcome to and that changed [00:01:00] everything. I'm your host, Mary Farrin, and this is a show where some of the world's most interesting and successful people unpack three pivotal moments that shaped who they are and how they show up. I've been working with business leaders for decades, and it's clear, it's the stories, not the titles that shape us.

[00:01:16] These moments change how we lead, how we live, and what we make possible. I learned so much from each of these conversations, and I hope you do too. Let's jump in.

[00:01:26] Okay. Let's get started by you telling me just something that's giving you some joy right now.

[00:01:34] Oh, great question. I have a brand new puppy, a golden Retriever puppy. His name is Sunny.

[00:01:41] And every time I come home, as a lot of dog owners know, the welcome is just so extreme. It's like Dale and he flops on his back and he is so excited to see me. And, um, so I get those moments several times throughout the day and for [00:02:00] sure giving me joy. That's amazing. First puppy. First puppy. Yeah. First puppy.

[00:02:06] The first family puppy is a big, a big, big deal, eh? Yeah, like I grew up, I had a dog growing up, um, with my, you know, my household growing up, but this is the first puppy that we've had, um, with my family and yeah, it's definitely, um, it's an adventure. Yep. Yeah. That's so fun. I feel like everybody, if they've never experienced that feeling, should have that because this sort of unfettered joy and no matter what time of day, uh, what day of the week, what moment, anything, the dog, the dogs are always so, so, so happy.

[00:02:38] It's like there's no other being in the world that treats you as consistently with that much love. Yeah. And like, I think also just the love that you have in return for your puppy, I think surprised, surprised me. Like, you know, right away I was like, oh my God, I like, love this puppy. And like, I think I probably like expected that, but didn't really expect the feeling to [00:03:00] come like so soon.

[00:03:01] Um, so it's, yeah. Such, uh, yeah, such a joy. Yeah, it's a question. I love it. That's so great. So thanks for that everyone. I'm here with Dr. Caitlin Link. She is a family and er physician and, you know, doing something really, really, really cool in the world. And we'll get to that uh, in a few moments. As you know, the reason I love doing this show is 'cause I love learning about people, what drives them, um, how they got to where they are and the impact that they're having in the world.

[00:03:28] So, um, I think it'd be fun to talk a little bit about how we met because we met in such a well serendipitous way perhaps. Um, totally. But I, you know, in my life I'm super interested in health and wellness and there's, I mean, I always have been, but now I'm hitting a new phase in life and age and stage, and I wanna be really intentional and deliberate about living the next 50 years.

[00:03:55] As well or better as the first 50. And so I'm doing all kinds of things, [00:04:00] like I'm focusing on weights, I'm focusing on nutrition and sleep and, and all these things. And I, for a couple years have been. Um, wanting to do a DEXA scan. And so I'm Googling and we live in Canada and I'm googling DEXA scans and there's like one in like Thornhill, which is about an hour away from, from where I live and I need to get my doctor to prescribe, you know, or you know, um, gimme a requisition for it or whatever.

[00:04:24] And I'm like, I know I'm gonna pay for it anyway, so why can't I just get this? But there were all these reasons I couldn't get one and then kind of left it. And then I just went online one day and googled DEXA scan and don't, you know, like seven minutes away from my house I can just sign up and go get one.

[00:04:39] And I walk through the door and I meet Caitlin and she says, why are you here? I was like, well, I wanna know about my body composition, although I should have said that A DEXA scan helps you understand your body composition, your bone density, your lean muscle mass, and all of these other things that, uh, Caitlin would know way more than I would.

[00:04:57] Um, and then she said, really? [00:05:00] Why is that? I was like, well, 'cause I'm aging and da da da da. And then she says, do you know about our program? I'm like, what program? I had no idea. She tells me, you have the benchmark. So Benchmark Proactive Health is your business. And she says they have this four week program where you get a benchmark of all of these, um, I guess, uh, health metrics in your body that you can change and you would know all like where you are and you would know what you need to work on.

[00:05:26] I'm like, this is the perfect thing for me. Sign me up. Like right in that minute I was ready to take the the four week program, which is super amazing and I think. One of the best parts about it was the, um, how empowering it is to know what's going on specifically with your body. And that that information is information, um, that you can use to change as opposed to genetically you're predisposed to X, Y, Z or you know, too bad for you.

[00:05:53] You're 50 years old, you're never gonna be 25 again. Or like those things that feel very disempowering. This was a, here's where you [00:06:00] are and now you know what to work on for where you can go. Anyway, that's a long preamble. Yeah, very well said. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, then I just knew like Caitlin was gonna be my friend.

[00:06:11] I went home and told my husband, I was like, oh, you would not believe who I met today. I think she could change my life anyway, now we're fast friends and we're here on, and that changed everything to find out. More about Caitlin and what got her to this moment in time doing what she does. And, uh, we intentionally built the show around three moments in time.

[00:06:34] Of course, we all know everything you do, you know, throughout your whole life shapes who you are. Um, but if you had to just pick three, and it could be three moments today that you might pick three different moments tomorrow. But we're gonna dig into three to understand a little bit more about what drives Kaitlyn and the impact she's gonna have in the world.

[00:06:51] Thank you for coming. Thank you for joining. You're one of my very first guests. Yeah. What an honor. Yeah, I'm very grateful. [00:07:00] Yeah. So, thank you. Okay, so let's dig into it a little bit. Tell us, I mean, if you want, why don't you just tell us a little bit about you? I mean, I did my own, my, my, my version of how I met you, but, um, little bit of background.

[00:07:11] Um, so I grew up in Burlington, um, grew up, I have a older sister and, um, grew up in Burlington playing, you know, a lot of different sports. Ended up kind of loving tennis and ended up playing a lot of tennis and played competitively and ended up getting a scholarship down to the states. Um, and then ended up going to medical school and specialized in family medicine and emergency medicine.

[00:07:36] Uh, and moved back to Burlington after living in Toronto for a bit of of time. And now I have three wonderful kids, um, 15, 13 and 10. Ben, Lauren and Nora. I'm married to my lifelong best friend and you know, the best husband in the world. His name is Adam. And then, like I told you, we just got sunny. And so being back in Burlington is great 'cause my sister lives [00:08:00] here.

[00:08:00] My mom lives here. Adam's parents live here, and Adam's siblings live close. So, uh, we're surrounded by family. Um. Yeah, I'm still quite active, not necessarily with tennis, but I do a lot of physical activity, which, you know, obviously talk a lot about with my benchmarks. Um, and yeah, I'm extremely passionate about supporting people in their health journey, um, to live their, you know, sort of best life and re reach their potential.

[00:08:27] That's amazing. Thanks for that. So let's, let's go back in time. Um, but let's talk about the tennis if we can. Yeah, sure. Mm-hmm. Um, 'cause you know, I was one of those people growing up who, we moved around a lot and I played a little bit of things, but like, I wouldn't call our family a very athletic family.

[00:08:43] So when you tell me that you played tennis competitively and then knowing that you went to university for it and all of that, like that's a whole life in and of itself. Like you could just focus on tennis and you'd have so many lessons and learning. So can we go back there to that? Yeah, [00:09:00] for sure. Um, so yeah, I kind of, I, I grew up playing a lot of sports, like, um, kind of right from a, a young age knew that like moving my body and playing games was like something that I was like really drawn to.

[00:09:13] Uh, and then I remember my dad sitting, we were sitting at dinner table Sunday night and this was when we would have these kind of deeper conversations. And I remember he said to my sister and I, listen, I think it'd be really good if you guys just chose a sport, one sport. You know, you both play a lot of sports to choose one and really focus on it.

[00:09:29] And I just sort of locked into that kind of, that, that advice. Um, and I was then sort of introduced to tennis and I was like, oh wow, this game is really great. Um, and I was a little older, like compared to, you know, now I guess when people sort of sports specialized too early or early. I don't, I'm judging that, but, um, and so I was kind of in grade seven or eight, um, maybe grade six or seven.

[00:09:54] Anyway, it doesn't matter. And I was like, okay, if I like this sport, I gotta really. Give it a go. And so I [00:10:00] remember one summer I just spent hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours on the tennis court. Um, I would rent the ball machine and. I hit a million tennis balls and realized like, okay, this is a sport that I absolutely love.

[00:10:14] Um, and so that was something that was exciting, but I really needed to sort of make moves in order to catch up to my cohort. Um, and so in grade 10, I ended up, ended up moving to Florida on my own with four other tennis players, um, and my coach at that time, and his wife. And so I feel like this was like a sort of a pivotal moment in, in my life.

[00:10:36] Like, you know mm-hmm. Sort of leaving home and leaving the nest and experiencing what that was like. Um, can we, can we pause for a second on that moment? 'cause I think as a family, that's a big decision to make. Well, I can't even imagine. Now I have kids who are 18 and 20, um, and it's like them leaving to go to university an hour away is a big deal for me.

[00:10:57] So thinking about grade 10, you're [00:11:00] 15, right? Four 15. Yeah. Yeah. I was 15. Yeah. Yeah. And so I have a 15-year-old too. I mean, he's 14, turning 15. He's, if he listens to this, he's like, I'm not 15, he's 15 over. Um, and, and, but going into grade 10, and so this is like an interesting moment for me because I just can't imagine.

[00:11:17] Right. Um, however, my parents. Also, you know, had this difficult decision because they saw this drive in me. They saw this excitement, this opportunity. Um, and, you know, it was on the backdrop of like, you know, some, yeah, it was, it was just, it was a difficult decision. And so, um, mm-hmm. But my family really made it happen.

[00:11:40] Um, and it wasn't easy, like financially, it wasn't easy for them. Um, and, but they, they thought, okay, this is gonna be a great experience for Caitlyn. And so they ended up making it happen for me. Which, um, was incredible. Like, and I think about that now, you know, like the ability to let [00:12:00] your kid go and experience something for a year and not be there.

[00:12:03] I know this now as a parent is, you know, my kids go away to overnight camp for a couple weeks and I'm just like, so like, I miss them so much. And I remember that was hard for my parents and, and pro, especially my mom. Um, and dropping me off in Florida and leaving was like a moment I probably will never forget.

[00:12:22] Just like that. Oh yeah, yeah. Like, you know, you just feel like your heart's breaking. Um, but also just so excited about the possibilities. Um, so yeah, this year really, it, it was a very humbling year, um, because I was with four tennis players who were all better than me, um, because I was sort of like in this Catchup game.

[00:12:43] And so, you know, going to, to play tennis in Florida, first of all. Florida is like the mecca of tennis, right? So you're already got a very high level of competition just by stepping into the state. Mm-hmm. Um, but then I [00:13:00] was with four of top of Canada's top players. Um, and so that year was hard, which just was like really hard, like day in, day out hard.

[00:13:09] Um, it was also like, you know, incredible when you, when you start to, to see that you can reach different sort of levels or potentials than that you expect that you didn't expect. Um, but I think why we're sort of stopping on this or why I'm stopping on this is that this year was a year where you just had to like really sort of dig deep and you're, you're away from home and you know you're trying your best with these other people and you know, you kind of feeling like you, you're just in this catch up game.

[00:13:41] And it just taught me so much about resilience. It taught me a lot about. Like I am able to do sort of harder things. Mm-hmm. Um, so not only was it humbling, but it also sort of gave you, like, when I came home, it gave me a little bit of, it gave me confidence. It gave me confidence that, you know, like [00:14:00] I myself can, can achieve things that maybe I didn't expect.

[00:14:05] Um, yeah. So, yeah. And the other thing that was pretty humbling is just going to a Florida high school. Like it was just, you were not the cool kid. Um. And I think the other thing that happened in this year that sort of stuck with me is, is that because I wasn't, you know, very, I wasn't good at tennis, like compared to my, my housemates or the people I went with, I really locked into academics.

[00:14:30] Like, I felt like I became, I'd always cared about school, like school was always something that I had really was always like very passionate about. I just like loved learning and loved, you know, sort of doing well and, and, but this year I was like, okay, if I'm not gonna be, you know, if I'm sort of like gonna be really struggling on the court day in and day out, I'm gonna just really try my absolute best bastion school to kind of like, yeah.

[00:14:56] Balance things out. I don't know what the word is, but really like, I think, [00:15:00] yeah, I think this is so interesting because first of all, to get to a point from grade seven and eight to a, to a point in grade 10 where you're good enough to, you know. Go to a different country and double down on a sport. So there's some level of drive and achievement there.

[00:15:15] Like you have to really, really want something. So like, so as I'm listening to you talk about the tennis itself, and then you go to a place where you're not cool, you're not the best, and what do you do? You're like, oh, well I guess I'll just work harder and then I'm gonna work really hard at this thing to get better, but I'm not as, you know, the, the best on the court.

[00:15:36] So now I'm gonna go and get better at something else. Like, I'm gonna be the best I can be in the academic space. So I'm so curious now about your level of drive. Like where does that thing come from? Is it, is it truly just innate that, you know, you find yourself on a tennis court in grade seven and you're like, I'm gonna go all out on this.

[00:15:57] Like, is it ne [00:16:00] did it develop over time? Yeah. Um, there's like a lot of parts to this. I do think that, uh. That part of it is innate, you know, I do, I do have a, like a drive to kind of always see what's kind of next and to push myself and, and to see if I can kind of increase my sort of capacity. Um, but I also kind of think, you know, in my household there was a little bit, there was, you know, there was a lot of discussion around, um, this is, you know, like success and what that looked like and, um, how you define that.

[00:16:37] And, um, I think that was probably played a, a role in this, whether that's, I don't know if you consider that healthy or unhealthy. Um, uh, but a lot, a lot of discussion around, um, like achievement. Right. Okay. So, um, you know, when you grow up with that, that's sort of is your, a bit of your imprint [00:17:00] and so mm-hmm.

[00:17:00] I think that that plays a role too. Yeah, I, you know, I was thinking about this show and the conversations I've had with so many people over the years of trying to understand what drives them and like the family values passed over time. Like, I think about, you know, my dad always used to say attitude is everything.

[00:17:18] And, you know, be the hardest worker there. And like, you know, I'm in midlife now and I still hear my dad's voice in the things I do today. And even how I'm coaching my own kids and how I'm showing up. Like those things are, um, you know, maybe they're in the DNA, they're certainly in the culture of your family.

[00:17:37] Yeah. And I also think that this was, was driven from, from both my parents, but probably more from my dad, um, really just sort of, um, like. You know, praising results and praising that, you know, just, and in like, you know, a healthy way. Like, just like very, and also just saying, you know, hard work and, and [00:18:00] attitude and, um, like diligence is what it takes to, to get results.

[00:18:07] So. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I I still hear that in my head too. Yeah. Yeah. So who do you, th so like, I always like to ask, who do you think you would, who do you think you would be if you hadn't had this experience of leaving home? And, um, I guess it started with the, I'm gonna go all in on tennis and then the leaving home and the, yeah.

[00:18:30] Um, I'm not sure if I could say like, who would I be, but I, I know how it changed me and, uh, yeah. So my, so my husband, um, his name is Adam. I mentioned him earlier. He and I have known each other our whole lives. And he's, he really remembers the change in me after Florida. Um, so we've known each other since we were 10.

[00:18:53] Um, and we were quite close in grade nine. You know, he was my boyfriend and, um, and I, [00:19:00] when I ended up going to Florida, you know, he was a little, obviously upset about that. Um, but when I came home he was just like, wow, like, you have changed. And I really remember this conversation we had and I was like, oh, like Uhoh, like, I hope it's good.

[00:19:16] Like, in my head, I hope he thinks it's a good change. Um, and I remember he's, he said, you know, you used to really think that you were, it. That you, you know, you had this like strut about you and like, and you sort of like kind of ignored people and you know, you kind of, I don't know, ignored people, but maybe he meant ignored him.

[00:19:35] I'm not sure. Like, but you know, you had this overconfidence, I guess is like the point and that when I came home I was just like, you know what, listen, I did think, I was like, yeah, I was overconfident probably. And then I went to Florida and I was like, oh my God, I am a very, very small fish in a very massive sea.

[00:19:52] And uh, yeah. And I think that that perspective at that age has guided so [00:20:00] many healthy decisions for me and like really realizing that, you know, being humble and, and really kind of understanding that, you know, there's a whole world outside of your, outside of your own. Um, and so I think that that was like the gift that, that that year gave me because I considered it mm-hmm.

[00:20:18] Gift. You know, it's interesting. I know that as you were thinking about this year away, you and you talked about resilience and I can do hard things and sort of chin out. Um, I can, you know, bring it on world. I can do this. I hadn't heard yet though the humility part. And so, and then so you say that affects you now.

[00:20:37] So what does life look like now with that added dimension of humility in it? I am just very aware that everybody has different circumstances and a different story and a different life and that there's a million other, I don't know, I just think that I, um, I don't take anything for granted. I, um, [00:21:00] I just don't, I'm having a hard time explaining that.

[00:21:05] Um. I think it's an interesting dovetail into your second moment, um, because I know you wanted to talk about the shift from, and you have to tell everybody about, you know, you went to business school. Yeah. And so you were on this a completely different path, and then you go and find yourself, you know, find yourself, you created a path to working with people.

[00:21:28] And I just like, my own observation of you with people is, um, I think people can be intimidated by doctors. And doctors know a lot about like, you know, and the level of work education expertise required to, to get to where you got to, you know, you earned a little bit of like, you know, I'm kind of the shit you, you, because you've, you've achieved that, right?

[00:21:52] But then there's also this side of you that wants to cheer people on and make them feel good and make them, [00:22:00] um, you know, lift them up and have, feel empowered about their life and their health and their wellness. And I don't know. To me, maybe some of those lessons back then come through in how you are with people today.

[00:22:13] Yeah, I totally, and I, I also feel like that's a, that's a trait that my mom really has. Like my mom is a real cheerleader and she is like always helping people, always supporting people. So for sure I've learned that from an early age as well. Um, but I do think that there's a story around business that sort of translates into why I decided to go into medicine.

[00:22:35] So, um, when I was in university, I wasn't. I always like, I had this like, sort of passion around medicine. 'cause I, at a, like when I was 10, I had my ear trained by some doctor up north or whatever, and I immediately felt, felt better. And I remember being like, whoever did that, at whatever point in my life, I just, I wanna be that person.

[00:22:54] So I was kind of like, interested in medicine, loved the physiology, and like loved prevention and loved [00:23:00] the body and like, was always fascinated in that stuff. So I went into university thinking, huh, I, I, I hope I have the ability to get into med school. I really, I really hope I have that. Um, and in the states we have this, like I, it's I think a bit bit of a better system in terms of, versus Canada.

[00:23:16] We can decide what we want to do after two years. Yeah. So after a few years of school having taken a whole bunch of different courses, I'm at this decision point, like, do I apply for the business school or do I just go full on and do like sort of a, um, do I major in biology? And I remember my dad was just like, listen, Kate, if if you major in a science and you come out and you can't get into med school, what are you gonna do?

[00:23:40] And I remember that really sort of guided that decision. Um, and so I went into business school and I, and I majored in accounting, which is like a major joke. Like my business partner Nancy, who I'm sure we'll talk about, and Adam, because I'm just like the most horrific accountant in the world. Like, it just, like, it's hilarious to even think that I did this.

[00:23:59] Um, but I [00:24:00] did, I did, I went to business school and I, I graduated with accounting and then, um, I ended up working as a consultant and one of my, uh, clients that I was assigned to was Ritz Carlton. And Ritz-Carlton taught me so much about service and the ability to, to talk to, to people and to make them feel like that they're welcome and that the, that that person is the center of your attention at that point.

[00:24:25] Um, but that's not why I was there. I was there because they needed, they hired a consulting company to really like, dive into the efficiency of their staff. And so one of my jobs as like, you know, coming right outta university was to follow people and actually time what they were doing. So I remember this moment, I was with somebody who, you know, um, a cleaner at the hotel and she was cleaning the bathroom, and I'm, I'm with a stopwatch, like, like measuring her clean.

[00:24:56] And I thought, I thought, okay, well I wonder [00:25:00] how she, like, the, the, the dynamic between me and, and the people I was measuring was obviously so bad, right? Like, they're looking like, are you serious? Like, and I also just felt like. Ugh, this is like so judgy. This is making them feel insecure. This is making them feel like probably their job is at risk.

[00:25:22] Mm-hmm. And this was all information to really like, cut people's jobs. And I was just like, okay. Not for me. Not. Nope. And I knew sort of in, in the early stages of that gig that I was like, no, I wanna be on the other end. I wanna be on the end of like helping people and like helping people understand themselves and their potential and like understanding.

[00:25:48] You know, like what makes them tick and how they can like, feel their best. Um, and so, mm-hmm. During that kind of eight month period where I was doing this consulting for Ritz [00:26:00] Carlton, I just decided, you know what these people are like. So top-notch in service, I'm gonna learn everything I can from them in terms of how they interact with the person and how they make that person feel.

[00:26:10] And I did my best while I was doing that job to make the people who I was measuring feel comfortable. Um, yeah. And then I applied to med school and I got in. So, so thanks to the Ritz Carlton's Drive for efficiency. Right. I was just like, but I think the interesting part about this, this, this part where I was just like, oh man, business school, dah, dah, dah.

[00:26:34] Why'd I do that? But I actually really think it played a key role in my, um, application and in maybe why, why McMaster chose me. Um, and then obviously now, uh, you know, I have my business partner, co-founder, Nancy, to rely on with, with the business aspect aspect of things. But, you know, I can dig back 20 years.

[00:26:58] Um, but I do, you know, [00:27:00] it's helpful in a way, in a way now. Yeah. So an interesting sort of, yeah, an interesting event that, that yeah. That helped me get to really understand that medicine was where I thrive and belong and where my passion lies. And I'm just, I remember the day I started med school, I was like, this is it.

[00:27:22] This is for me. I'm in the right spot. You never question him? No, I never questioned it. I, I think that, um, being a physician is, is, is harder than maybe what I expected. And, um, like I'm careful when people are like, you know, like, would you, like, would you recommend that I go into medicine? And, you know, it's not for everybody.

[00:27:43] Um, but it is a 1 million thousand percent for me. And so that is like something I'm really grateful for. Like this decision in my life just feels right down to my core, like the right one. Um, yeah, because it's such a privilege. It's such a privilege being a physician. I [00:28:00] love that I have this opportunity to connect with people and to help them and improve their health and to really, yeah.

[00:28:08] I just, it's, yeah, never questioned it. Um, but it is, it is a very, it's a difficult path. Um, it's a lot of responsibility in the emergency department there that that sort of load is probably. Yeah. It's, it's not for everybody. It's, it's, it's, there's a lot. It's a lot. It's a, it's, it can be, it can feel very heavy at times.

[00:28:30] Mm-hmm. So what do you think, like if you had to describe the qualities that somebody would need to do well or to thrive in that environment, to say what you're saying, which is I totally knew it was for me. Like what are the Yeah. So Thrive is a probably what I'm gonna kind of mm-hmm. Kind of like, you know, build my answer off of, because I think there's a lot of people who have the, the ability to be, you know, a good physician, right?

[00:28:55] Mm-hmm. Um, but to thrive as a physician, I think [00:29:00] you can't get tired by people. You gotta like really enjoy people and you've gotta really understand and be curious about the person in front of you, um, because. That's what the person feels, right. Like so much about a patient physician relationship to me that, that thrives is, is that, is that that person leaves and, and is like, oh, that, that like, I think she understands me, or I think she knows where I'm coming from, or she's curious about what I'm thinking or, and I think even, even in my moments in the emergency department where I need to make, you know, decisions in seconds, like I'm still trying to make sure that, you know, I have some sort of understanding of the person and what that person would, would want and understands.

[00:29:46] And, and I think to thrive as a doctor, that's like one of the most important things. I think, you know, I also, obviously there's a lot to do with ability and skill and keeping up to date with information [00:30:00] and, you know, uh, you know, to make really important decisions really quickly, you have to really know your stuff.

[00:30:06] Um, so I think that goes without, sort of, goes without saying. So that's why I'm saying like, to thrive, um, because I think that's what, you know, that's what keeps me excited. Um, like, I think I've told you this before, like if I would ever get kind of worked up about, or nervous about like, going into a shift or, or, or I don't know, like maybe I feel a little bit like down about work.

[00:30:26] I'm not sure, but I just think, okay, just think about you and in the room with, with the patient. Just think about that and I just settle right down because I truly enjoy those moments. Those moments are privileged. They're. Yeah. That's the, the thing about being a doctor is just, it's such a privilege to help people in the emergency department often on, on sort of these like, really vulnerable days.

[00:30:50] But now, like, what I love about what I'm doing now, which I was really lacking in the emergency department, is, is like I get this privilege to see people on an ongoing basis. Like that was something that [00:31:00] was like a real void for me in the emerge. Like I would get to see them help them in that moment. And then I never knew what happened.

[00:31:08] I didn't get to see, you know, how'd this person do? Sometimes you, you do, but that's sort of by like, it's not, yeah. Yeah. It's like, 'cause they come back to the emergency department or whatever, but if they're coming back, they're coming back out of need. Yeah. In a critical situation because they're in the emerge.

[00:31:25] So it's a different d it it's a different connection, right? Yeah. I like what you said about Thrive. Like I know that you know the schools and the, um, you know, various challenges, you know, in the system to make sure people have the capability of doing the job itself. I mean, that's gonna weed a lot of people out.

[00:31:45] You, you have to know your stuff. You won't graduate, you won't, you know, pass the exams and all the things. Right. But I think this piece of humanity, that side, I, you know. Oftentimes we leave regardless of profession. We [00:32:00] leave those skills to chance. It's like you have them or you don't, or hopefully you grew up in a good family, or like, we don't necessarily coach and guide people to connect as human beings.

[00:32:12] In fact, like, you know, the work that I do in the corporate world of helping bring the humans back to the story of what we do and why we do it and why it matters. You know, I often see the story of the business is divorced of the human behind it. It's, it's the, it's the strategy and the metrics and the features and the benefits.

[00:32:31] It's very removed and in a, in a, in a world like medicine. I know nothing about it, but, um, the technical skills required are so heavy and the responsibility so heavy, I could see it would easily be easy to let go of the human side because you have so much to do and focus on and, and, you know, you're, you're actually taking care of human life.

[00:32:55] So the stakes are high, higher than, you know, in most other professions. So, [00:33:00] yeah. And some, sometimes people need to, to separate that fact just to, to perform at, at the level they need to perform. Right. So sometimes people, that's a protective mechanism, right? People need to Yeah. Not, not dig deep into the person, in front of them, um, because, you know, maybe that affects their performance.

[00:33:18] Yeah. But I, I actually always felt that. It enhanced. Like, I don't really know if performance is the right way of saying it, but it enhanced the, the visit or like, or the, the dynamic between both of us. Like mm-hmm. You know, I feel like I could make way better decisions when I sort of had some sort of background on people.

[00:33:37] And now at Benchmark I really have this amazing amount of like, opportunity to really know that person in front of me and like, know what makes them tick. Mm-hmm. Know their barriers, know their, you know, their strengths and like help them to support them in order for, for us to, you know, help them reach their, their potential.

[00:33:58] You know? And, and I, we're gonna get [00:34:00] to that, um, that pivot for you in a moment, but just from an experience. 'cause you know, Caitlyn and I didn't know each other when I went in to do my benchmark um, program. So it was remarkable to me that I'm sitting across the desk from a physician who is asking me and like really like spending the time.

[00:34:18] I don't know, was it an hour? Give or take maybe more to understand me, my family history, what I'm, you know, aspiring to, what I'm struggling with. Like all those things. It felt like I was stealing time from the health system because you're so used to these sort of single point of care moments to do, and it's like in and out five minutes.

[00:34:41] And I don't blame doctors. For that. I, it's, it's, you know, it, there's a lot of people to take care of in the world, and you can only do spend so much time because you've got, there's high demand and, and you know, the throughput is, is significant and all of that. But for me it was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.

[00:34:58] How can I get like, [00:35:00] so much value and, and that shared understanding. And then that was like just day one. And then I go through and I do my VO two max and I do my blood panel. I have the glucose monitor. I'm do like, and I'm like a good little soldier 'cause I wanna know all this stuff. So I'm like following all the, the, you know, the protocols for the month and all of that.

[00:35:18] And then I come out the other end and meet with you again and I'm sitting across the desk from a doctor who's helping me understand my own physiology. Um, you know, and I mean I, you know, a lot of it was really good. So that felt really good. Um, you know, when you, as you think about, uh, people can get insecure about their health and their wellness and all that stuff, and so, um, it's a vulnerable moment to have all that data.

[00:35:42] In, you know, in front of you and you're, you're talking about it, right? Um, but for me, for you to spend that time, the value of that was so, and I guess the contrast of the, a healthcare system that's built to take care of sick people when they're sick. And you need that, [00:36:00] um, to, uh, discussion of here's who you are, your hopes, your dreams, you know, your goals for your life, and here's how your health is supporting that.

[00:36:08] And here's what you can do. Like, it's a totally different, um, experience, but to have your time and attention and focus on that as opposed to me like using chat GPT to figure it out. Or, um, reading books and doing things, you know, based on, you know, some generic research I heard about. Um, the value in that is just so immense.

[00:36:29] I think a lot of the times it, it's really just like, it, it's guiding somebody, um, and by asking, you know, careful kind of questions and, and again, like really sort of being curious about the human in front of you. Um. That, that's where a lot of people just end up getting insights on, even on their own, right?

[00:36:47] Um, mm-hmm. And so it, it's like, it, it's, it's a guiding process. It is. It's just like, you know, this is the information that we have. I think one of the points that you brought up that's important to talk about is it is it is [00:37:00] vulnerable, um, to come in and to be tested and measured. And I'm so, like, I'm so fascinated, um, by measurement, by all of the things that measurement entails.

[00:37:11] Like, you know, sort of the anticipation, um, the fear of measurement, um, the fear of what to do with the measurement, the lack of knowledge around measurement. Um, however, I also just think the feeling that you get when you measure yourself, like I am taking control like that, you feel like empowered, you feel like.

[00:37:31] You know, whatever these results are gonna be, I now have them. And so I have more information about my body in order to optimize my own health. And there's nothing that feels better than that. Like I recently did my own benchmark, like I do my benchmark, you know, probably every six to eight months kind of thing, just so that I know what my, what my members are going through or, you know, experiencing.

[00:37:53] And I just remember being like, man, I just think this program is so good because, um, [00:38:00] because I just think there's so much power in data. Like, you know, without it, you know, you're flying blind and, and the more information we can have a better our bodies, the better. But, um, back to the vulnerable part, you've really got to recognize that and, and sort of tell the person like, good for you, like for coming in and getting this information because, you know, sometimes people don't find it easy.

[00:38:23] And look at you doing this. Like you gotta make sure that you really encourage that step because it's a hard one to take. Well, what's interesting is it's also so new. I mean, there's an emerging world of everybody. I mean, I wear an Apple watch and a whoop band, like I am tracking all of these things. And you know, the relative accuracy of them is always in question.

[00:38:44] How, how well can they measure any one thing? Um, but it is a new concept to get into this level of understanding of your body. And so, you know, go back 20 years and [00:39:00] you're just following a diet trend. A everybody do this now. I mean, I, and I've done all those things. I've been like, oh, you know, keto is the way to go because we don't need sugar.

[00:39:09] And, um, no, that's not good. Do fasting. Like it's this kind of like, I'm, I'm a, I'm, I follow these trends and this research and these, you know, doctors who are putting this information out there to the masses. Um, irrespective of whether or not that's good for me in this body at this time in my life with, you know.

[00:39:28] You know, whatever's going on with me. So it's a relatively new concept for someone to be able to go in, go through a process, get a benchmark of how their body is in this moment, and have very specific, tangible actions they can take to address those very specific things, which is empowering. Um, but like, you know, there's this world of ignorance is bliss, I don't wanna know.

[00:39:53] And getting people over that hump to know that all progress starts with the truth. Right. Got it. Nailed it. [00:40:00] Yeah. Yeah, I had a yoga teacher once say to me, the more time you spend in your body, the better relationship you have with your body. And I translate that into a yoga practice where you're moving and breathing and you've kind of blocked out the outside world.

[00:40:13] It's like a moving meditation. And it's absolutely true, but I could also apply this benchmark to that because it's like, oh, now this, now I have an intellectual relationship with my body. 'cause I now understand the measurements, right? Like it's a, and and I'm working from a place of, of, you know, knowledge about me.

[00:40:32] And so now I'm, uh, I have a closer relationship to me and my body as a result. Like, I, I think there's like a, in terms of, you know, change and, and you know, trying to make sure that we, you know, are doing our absolute best for our bodies on a day to day. 'cause you know, our bodies are just like fascinating.

[00:40:52] And it's also just. You know, the, what our bodies do for us minute to minute, second by second, it's just [00:41:00] so incredible. And we have to treat our bodies like gold. Yeah. And I think that, you know, there's a secret sauce in having daily objective measurements, having somebody explain what they mean and then having somebody personalize it for you.

[00:41:18] Um. I think there's a secret sauce that leads to change there. I really do. Mm-hmm. Um, because then people are like, oh, yeah, okay, when I do this, this happens. Like when I have a late meal, my sleep is really bad. Uh, when I have, you know, drink of alcohol, my heart rate really spikes in the middle of the night.

[00:41:36] You know, when I have that croissant, my blood sugar goes up and stays up way too long. Like, there's just like all of these things that people, these insights that people learn that lead to, to change, that prevent disease, right? Mm-hmm. And I think this is where, you know, our healthcare system and, and it's just because we're designed to treat disease, we're not designed to prevent disease.

[00:41:58] So I'm not criticizing [00:42:00] it by, but this is where I feel like this is the opportunity is, is that if we know that, you know. The way we live our life leads to chronic diseases. We need to do a deep, deep dive onto how we live our life. How are you living? What is your lifestyle entail? Um, mm-hmm For sleep, for exercise, for nutrition, we need to have these metrics.

[00:42:21] Um, and the more information that we have and, and the more we personalize it for each member, that the more likely people are changing. And we're, we're seeing it day to day, which is just mm-hmm. It's too exciting. It's so exciting. So let's talk about the, the pivot that you made. So you're, you're in the ER through COVID.

[00:42:42] Mm-hmm. Which I can't even, I imagine, well, I can't even imagine in the first place. I mean, I am a word nerd and I live in the communications marketing world. Um, I can't even imagine, you know, I don't know, being a janitor in an er, let alone the responsibility of being a doctor in an er, let alone during [00:43:00] COVID.

[00:43:00] So when, when I wanna understand. The experience for you in the ER and what's the trigger point? Like, I get the idea of getting into the world of prevention, but I wanna understand the thought process for you because here you are at a critical moment of need for humans. You're able to help them one-on-one, um, you know, you're literally saving lives in the moment.

[00:43:22] Um, what was the thought process for you to get from there to I'm gonna, you know, close the book on that chapter and do something else? Honestly, probably like most patients that I saw, you know, it was like a day to day evolution. You know, when people come in with, you know, a heart attack, stroke, um, certain diagnoses that I know, you know, it's not always preventable.

[00:43:47] I, I, I wanna make sure that that's clear 'cause mm-hmm. There are people, sometimes people have circumstances that they can't control. Um, but often when I'm seeing acute manifestations of chronic [00:44:00] disease, this stems from, you know, five to 10 years of, you know, certain lifestyle behaviors that can be modified and changed in order to prevent a catastrophic outcome and just couldn't stop seeing it in front of me.

[00:44:15] Um, I've also always. Like lived a very preventative lifestyle like you. And my sister used to joke with me, like as soon as the streetlights went on, I was like in bed. Um, and she's like, okay, it's time to go to bed. And I also like, I was like, I don't know what grade I was in, but like I hired my own nutritionist.

[00:44:39] Like I babysat you did not. I was like, yeah. And Adam remembers this and so does Nancy. And I got this like nutrition plan. Um, how old would you have been? Like 14? I was in grade 11. Okay. Yeah. Maybe grade nine, grade 11. I think it was grade 11. And, um, anyway, so this was also like really ingrained in [00:45:00] my existence.

[00:45:01] And so knowing that there was this real opportunity for people to prevent really, you know, like it just takes one day of getting sick. For you to be like, oh man, I, I'll do anything not to feel this way. Yeah. And I should be better to my body and I should drink more water and I should sleep more. Like, I think it just takes one day where you're like, oh man.

[00:45:25] And, and so I just couldn't, I just kept seeing it. It was like all I ended up seeing. Um, but the story behind sort of the trigger, like that sort of like, you know, kind of a broader picture, um, was that my sister who, um, is human resources at a consulting company was like, you know, Kate, I would love for you to give some health talks to our group of consultants.

[00:45:53] And it's just basic health information. You know, you don't have to do anything about COVID or you don't have to do anything about like, [00:46:00] you know, high blood pressure. Like just make it like, kind of general, um, like health talks. So I had given, um, some talks around like nervous system regulation and then, and then I had this idea, I was like.

[00:46:13] I'm gonna, because our healthcare system is really focused on disease. 'cause that's how we're trained and we're, you know, just the, the state of the nation. Um, and we don't have the capacity to support people to really sort of prevent disease. I am going to create a talk and the talk is going to be about how do you own your health?

[00:46:36] Like how do you own it? What is available in the market that you can get that teaches you about your own health so that you can prevent disease? Um, and so this is where, you know, Adam, my husband, was just such a good sport. I, I said, you know, I'm gonna prepare this talk and I need you to be, I need you to be my Guinea pig.

[00:46:58] And so I bought [00:47:00] two whoop bands like you. Talked about which are, you know, wearables that track your exercise and your sleep. And so I was like, okay, here, put this on your wrist. And I made him wear a continuous glucose monitor, which goes on the back of your arm and it sort of gives us an indication of how you process your carbohydrates and gives you blood sugar information.

[00:47:22] I made him get a DEXA scan and a VO two max and I got him to do a bunch of blood work and, and my husband is a very analytical, super bright guy and he was just like, okay Caitlin, this is working. He is like, I'm going to bed at nine 30. I'm not drinking alcohol. I'm starting to do some intervals. And he was like, I, I think you're onto something.

[00:47:48] And so that sort of gave me confidence to really kind of prepare this presentation for this group of, of, um, consultants. And then when I gave the talk, you know, in the middle of the talk people are like, [00:48:00] oh, I wanna buy a whoop band. And then after the talk, people reached out and said, Hey, like, do you think you could do what you did for your husband for me?

[00:48:07] And then this is, you know, my husband, um, is an entrepreneur himself. And he was like, okay, Caitlyn, go like, just go buy 10 whoop bands. Put them on whoever will agree to do this. And start piloting people through a program that you think would work in order to people that, for people to have a better understanding of their own health in order for, for them to reach their provincial, uh, potential and, and prevent disease.

[00:48:34] And I think that that. Was a real, like a very pivotal moment because I was like, oh, what do you mean 10 boot bands? I'm like, oh, like how much is that gonna cost? And like, what are people gonna think? And, and, and my husband was just like, who cares? You need to see what people want before you like, just go try it.

[00:48:53] Just like get out and try it and see what people think and what they want. Get people's feedback and understanding. And, [00:49:00] and then, so I did and I asked my closest friends and my family and I had really good, amazing people. You know, my first 10 people, um, gave me awesome feedback and then I did it again, and then, um, then I did it again.

[00:49:18] And is this while you're still in the er, like you're still Yeah. Yes. You're doing this in and around your other schedule plus with three kids and all the other things. And all of the other things. Yeah. And, and then, um, I quickly realized that like I, I have a skillset that is. You know, really focused around people and, and getting metrics and helping them understand it and that stuff.

[00:49:42] But I, I really lacked a lot of other skills needed to eventually make something like this work. And then this is where my, a co-founder comes in, um, who is my lifelong friend. And I think our story is like just the coolest, uh, her name is [00:50:00] Nancy. And, um, is it a good time to talk about this now? You think?

[00:50:05] Yeah. I totally wanna talk about this. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Um, so Nancy and I grew up together. Um, so I met Nancy when I was five and she was four. And we met, we lived on the same street. We lived a couple houses down, and she and I, um, just grew up to being great friends, but also like, sort of an interesting dynamic between the two of us because, like, extremely competitive, but only in the, in the best way.

[00:50:31] Um, and so she. You know, every sort of test, any sort of thing we had to study for, she really taught me, um, like the, she really taught me about diligence and work and, and not accepting, you know, just like making sure you really understand things right down to the, to the core. Um, and so if we would have a test and, you know, if I didn't get the highest in the class, it was only acceptable [00:51:00] if Nancy did.

[00:51:03] And so we sort of really pushed each other and we both ended up going down to the states for university. Nancy was a runner, um, or is a runner. She wasn't, she's, she, she still runs and she went to Dartmouth and she ended up staying in the States and, you know, lived in New York City and did a lot of amazing jobs, worked for Sesame Street and this incredible experience and went to Berkeley Business School where she met her husband, Scott.

[00:51:27] And um, and they settled in, in that area and they now have three kids and, and she's got a lot of experience in startups. And she was in the middle of, um, she was like, had a break in between her startups and I was like, Hey Nance, this is what I'm doing. What do you think? And she was like, this is pretty cool.

[00:51:48] And I told her all about it. And then I remember I got off the phone and I was going to bed and I said to Adam, Hey, do you think I should ask Nancy to partner with me? And he was like, [00:52:00] yes. Um, and because Nancy and I, like, we first of all trust each other just again, like straight to the core, right? We just and I, and really know each other so, so well.

[00:52:13] We grew up together, two houses down, spent millions and millions of hours together. Um, we both have similar work ethics and similar values, but we have different skills. Um mm-hmm. Nick's, you know, extremely organized. She's got this business mind and and perspective that I don't have. Um, and so when you think about a partnership, it's pretty special.

[00:52:37] Not, not only because we're such close friends and we know each other so well, but, but, but because we compliment each other so well. Um, so she said yes, and there we go. So when was that, like how long ago? Good question. So she helped me with my last pilot, so I would have to say like [00:53:00] April, 2023. Okay. Maybe May, 2023.

[00:53:04] In and around there. Spring, summer, that time. Yeah. Uh, in and around there where she was just like, yeah, I, I will do this. And then, um, and that, you know, the fact that she's my co-founder and we work together and get to see each other all the time and talk and really grow this amazing business together is just like beyond special.

[00:53:24] I don't even have a word for it. Um, mm-hmm. So, and these two people who I've grown up with, my husband and my, you know, one of my closest best friends, um, have such an integral part of this business and this role that I'm playing now that it's pretty cool. It's amazing. It makes me think of that saying, and I don't know who originally said it, but you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.

[00:53:51] Your story, um, is a total reflection of that. And, you know, you're in this, these, these [00:54:00] relationships from when you were a kid and there's challenge and growth in all of them, like, they like consistently. And this idea of pushing each other, but also it sounds like in the, when you said in the best of ways, like lots of times competition can get toxic for people.

[00:54:16] I mean, my husband has a story of a friend, like one of his best friends in high school, they'd like play basketball until they got so angry with each other. Like they're gonna go out later in the night, but they'd get so mad at each other that they would just like pack up and walk away and they wouldn't, like, that's how it would devolve into, uh, we're not talking to each other anymore for at least 24 hours, that kind of thing.

[00:54:35] So, um, I think it's pretty special and unique. And I'm curious about the dynamic that makes it a positive one. One that says, I'm gonna work. You know, you're, you're upping your game. I'm gonna work harder. And it's a good thing. It's pushing me and it's, and it feels good. Yeah. Um, I think it's a lot around just like, my respect for Nance, and [00:55:00] I know her expectation of herself.

[00:55:03] Mm-hmm. And I feel like I wanna have that too. Um, I also just think that, you know, we, like, we would race in the pool for hours and, um, like always just sort of like kind of pushing the envelope for, for both of us to get better. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I love that also, just like really, yeah. My, my respect for her work and her diligence and her, she just pushes through like what I would maybe consider an obstacle.

[00:55:39] She just doesn't. She just doesn't see it as an obstacle, and I'm just like so inspired by that. Um, and, and I think that's probably where it is. It's like, you know, somebody that's inspiring you and that that's pushing you to get better. I don't know how that could ever be toxic. I mean, I, I actually do know how it can be toxic, right?

[00:55:58] It's different like personalities and [00:56:00] stuff like that. But Nancy and I, we just didn't have that. We actually, um, did a bracelet stand and, um, we recently found our price list that we wrote out. We were like, maybe we were 10, maybe 11. And for the whole summer we sat out our, our outside our front, like, you know, on our lawn and yeah.

[00:56:23] And then we ended up taking it to like a, you know, the Burlington market or whatever. So I think that's also just so funny. So funny. I love it. We were like in business when we were 10 and then it started with bracelets. Yeah. I'm just like, yeah. Super grateful. I also just like Adam also plays a role here.

[00:56:42] Like Adam grew up with us too. Yeah. And so he really, we all know each other it like, in a way that is unique, um mm-hmm. And we all bring really different parts to, to this business. And even though Adam doesn't work in the day-to-day, he really supports like the mission [00:57:00] and the goal and like sort of has this bird's eye view and sort of helps Nancy and I recalibrate sometimes.

[00:57:06] Um, and so, yeah, I just think that, that the dynamic and, and my, it's just such, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful that this is, this is what I get to do every day. Yeah, that's amazing. The people I get to deal with, right? Yeah, totally. I think it's incredible. Like, so let's talk about entrepreneurship for a second.

[00:57:25] 'cause I know, and I got a stat years ago, and like you, well maybe like you, I, math would not be my thing. It would not be where I'd choose. So maybe I've got this stat right, roughly, but something like 5%, and Adam probably knows this, but something like 5% of the world are entrepreneurs. Like, it's not a lot of people that wanna go and break out and do their own thing.

[00:57:45] So, and, and I've not yet met, met Nancy, but having been involved in startups and Adam is an entrepreneur as well. Like, and that shift for you to go from a fairly, I mean, [00:58:00] you had probably the most marketable role ever. Like the world needs doctors and the world needs er doctors, right? To go from that world to now breaking out and doing this thing on your own, how did that feel for you?

[00:58:11] Very uncomfortable. Uh, yeah, very uncomfortable. Like I, I, I sort of. I've said this to Adam so I can say it now. Um, let's say five years ago, you know, whatever, Adam would be kind of talking about his, some of the, the issues that he would be facing as an entrepreneur. And I, you know, I always wanna be interested in listening and stuff, but I sort of just had this in the back of my head, like, oh, you know, my job's harder.

[00:58:36] Um, and I don't know why I would think that. Like, I don't know why, like, anyway, I would just think, oh, my challenges are more difficult. And, and, and in some respects they obviously are. Um, but I think the, the one thing that medicine gives us is a direct path. It also gives us a lot of mentorship and it gives us a lot of experience.

[00:58:55] Um, and so when we face something in medicine, we have a lot of [00:59:00] resources to find to help us. Um, and I find, I find. That is the biggest difference between practicing medicine and being on this path with all of this support to them being an entrepreneur where there is no path. Um, a lot of decisions are, you know, you've gotta really like, dig into to, to the, to the details, but it's also like a kind of a lot of gut decisions, like a lot of, yeah.

[00:59:28] And, and a lot of trust. Um, and so I find that that part, like, I just don't, I don't have the experience to fall back on and, um, and, you know, maybe I'll get there, but I feel like this is where I really rely on Nancy and, and Adam for, for their experience. And, and I'm really grateful for it, but very, very different world and the uncertainty I find challenging.

[00:59:53] Yeah. Yeah. And the risk. I feel like the risk, I think the other thing too is, I know I'm sort [01:00:00] of just gonna keep talking about this, but I think people have this really interesting perspective of entrepreneurship, but I did too. Um, like people immediately are like, oh, you have total control of your schedule.

[01:00:10] And oh, you have, like, they, they go to like these obvious advantages. But on the flip side, it's just like, it, it's all you. It's all you live, like it's with you all the time. Like in, in emergency medicine, I, I, I'm on or I'm off. Mm-hmm. And obviously there'd be cases that would stick with me and things like that, but, you know.

[01:00:31] You're constantly thinking about your business, um, you're taking a lot of risk. Um, there's a chance that this risk doesn't work and there's a lot of like emotion and a lot of like, dedication and you're putting your whole heart and soul into something that may not work. And if it doesn't work, what does that look like?

[01:00:51] Um, if it does work, what does that look like? It's just a very, it's a really interesting road that I am so happy that [01:01:00] I. I don't know if happy's the word, but like I, I'm, I'm in a position where I have the opportunity to do this and I really understand the difficulty of being an entrepreneur. Like I, like I never did before.

[01:01:14] So I have a different kind of connection with, with my husband. Um, yeah, my sister-in-law's also an entrepreneur. Her name's Emily and I definitely can relate to some of the challenges she's had. 'cause it's, it can be a really lonely road, which I wasn't expecting. 'cause medicine, it's totally opposite, right?

[01:01:32] It's like such a community. Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. So, um, it makes me think about, and I don't know, like, I'd like your thoughts on this part of it. 'cause all of those things, I mean, I would observe too, um, I have like three thoughts going on at once. One is the. There's a, and you know, you know that I'm part of this coaching group called Strategic Coach, and Dan Sullivan has been a coach of entrepreneurs for like 40 years.

[01:01:59] And one of the [01:02:00] things, he just wrote a book, not just, but he wrote a book, um, with a guy named Ben Hardy called The Gap in the Game. And entrepreneurs easily can get into the gap because of like things like the, all the challenges and problems in the business, the gap between where you are and where you wanna be.

[01:02:18] The gap between, you know, your service delivery and what you hope it could be. The technology, the operations, the whatever. Right? And you can focus on those because you're, you have a vision for a better future. You have this thing you wanna build and you're not there yet. But when you were talking about how hard it is and the risk and how it might not work, like I kind of want you to look in the rear view mirror for a minute and look at the gain because you told, like you said, that you tied that conversation with Nancy in 2023.

[01:02:45] So sometime before that you were giving the presentations for your sister and Adam's like, Hey, go do this for people. They're asking you like run in the direction of the horses. 'cause they're already running there, right? And you gotta just grab, go grab this thing by the tail. But that is only two years ago.[01:03:00]

[01:03:00] And just, and I know you have a number, how many people have gone through, maybe not your entire program, but have gone through Benchmark Proactive Health in the last two years? Like just on, I'm like, we're just testing market concept here. How many people roughly, I should know this number. Like right off the top of my head, Don.

[01:03:19] Don't worry. I know. Nobody's gonna fact check you anywhere between kind of 600 to seven 50 people going through the dexa. Um, and the program, I don't know. And I think it The benchmark? Yeah, the benchmark program. I don't know. Hundreds. Hundreds, yeah. Hundreds in two years. So like when you, like, because you are thinking about your bigger future because you are driven and you are looking for the next level.

[01:03:49] And you know, it would only be better if we could have this and we could have that. And I wanna get here and I need to, like, you're thinking about all that and that's appropriate 'cause that's gonna grow the business and that's gonna help you achieve what you wanna achieve. But just for one moment, [01:04:00] look in the rear view mirror and say, holy shit, look what I did.

[01:04:03] Yeah, that's really massive. Like, yeah. You know. Yeah, I, I think it's actually a really good point because I think, um, I, I do this with our members too. You know, sometimes I have members that fixate on, on the opportunities. I'm like, can we fixate on the strengths for a bit? And I think that, that, uh, even when I think about, you know, parenting my kids and stuff like that, I think, uh, growth.

[01:04:28] Psychology and focusing on positives can have a real impact on people. So I appreciate you doing that for me. That's amazing. Well, and then also, like, we can get into the gap 37 times in a day and then we can also have the power to like flip it and get into the game. 'cause you are gonna get more momentum from that gain energy versus the gap energy, right?

[01:04:50] Like you're gonna, you know, find more, build more and all of that, right? Yeah. And so much is about momentum. So much is about momentum and almost everything, right? And like, you know, [01:05:00] making these, you know, small daily habit changes to improve your health. Like you, you get into a momentum, oh, hey, I did, I, I walked three times this week.

[01:05:08] Right? That's amazing. Next week I'm gonna redo four. You know, whatever it is. The momentum really helps you just create change. So, yeah. Yeah. So last, last thought and then we'll wrap it up. 'cause I wanna, um, as you got into this conversation around entrepreneurship and the challenges, and I just love your perspective because you came at it, you came at it from a point of purpose and passion.

[01:05:32] And I would offer up that that's the fuel that's driving your Absolutely. You know, taking this on. Like maybe you're a person who's more inclined to have certainty and predictability and reliability in, in the world. Like that feels better and more comfortable. But here you are charting new, uh, new territory because you believe the world needs it and you're solving for that.

[01:05:53] So, um, how often do you return to that, that passion inside that thing that [01:06:00] says, the world needs this and look left, look right. I'm the person to do it. Yeah, it's a good question. I like, I kind of, it's a feeling I have all the time. Maybe, I don't know. Yeah. Like every day I am just like. Oh, wow, that's so awesome that I got to meet these people who came in and just curious about their own health.

[01:06:23] And I could guide them even in, in small ways. It just, I feel it. Every, this is gonna sound like I'm making it up, but I'm not, like, I almost feel it every visit. Every visit. I'm just like, oh, what a privilege. But how, how fun it is to meet new people who are on their own individual health journeys and have their challenges and have their, you know, their strengths and their opportunities and they're just, you know, curious about their own body.

[01:06:49] And I get to help them, you know, guide them in, you know, sometimes small ways, sometimes big ways. And, um, I just feel like, yeah, I was meant to do this. I just [01:07:00] love it. Mm-hmm. I love it so much. Right down to my core, and I know Nancy does too. I love that. That's beautiful. You know, you're in the right place doing the right thing when you can say that every day.

[01:07:11] Yeah. And about every interaction. Amazing. Okay. For final thought. Yeah. Is there any bit of advice and, you know, I think about my parents a lot and I quote my mom all the time. Is there any bit of advice that has been, that plays through in your head for, you know, that you've picked up along the way that, um, you find useful in your journey and that other people might?

[01:07:33] Um, yeah, that's a really good question. And I would say, um, stay curious. Yeah, I think about that all day, every day maybe. Um, so yeah, like stay curious in lots of different ways, right? So stay curious about yourself. Um, so if you notice different things in your own body or if you notice different, you know, opportunities or things that you wanna change, like be curious about it.

[01:07:59] [01:08:00] And I think that sort of takes a judgment out of it too. Like, um, also just be curious about other people. Um, yeah, and I think that that is really. So important. I feel like if, you know, be curious about why somebody, you know in conversations, like, I wonder why somebody said that. I'm gonna ask. Um, mm-hmm. I wonder, and, and staying curious about, you know, sometimes if you have like a disagreement or you have something that, that's that negative, that is negative, you, if you're curious about why that happened, both from your perspective and the other person's perspective.

[01:08:33] I feel like it cause it calms the negative emotions down a bit. This is for me. Yeah. Um, no, I, I believe you can't be curious and angry at the same time. You can't be curious and right at the same time, like curiosity releases your attachment to those fixed states. It's like, um, so in anger, in frustration, in doubt, in all those places, if you can get curious about it, then you can move past it.

[01:08:59] [01:09:00] Yes. I love it. Yeah. I just think it helps the day to day. It helps the moment to moment, you know, stay curious, you know. Keep wondering, you know, ask questions. Um, and I think just like you said, it sort of, yeah, it removes the, the attachment. I think that that's my best advice. I love it. Caitlin, this is such a pleasure.

[01:09:21] I feel like I could talk to you for hours about all of this stuff, but we can just save that for, you know, offline conversations. Thank you, benchmark. You're welcome. Um, it's a pleasure. So, uh, benchmark Proactive Health, Dr. Caitlin Link, all the reasons she's there doing this important work that the world needs.

[01:09:37] So check her out. We'll put her information in the show notes. Until next time, everyone. Thanks for listening to, and that changed everything. If you like what you heard, follow us wherever you podcast and share it with some of your most curious and interesting friends. Find us on Instagram and TikTok at and that changed [01:10:00] everything. I'm Mary Faron, until next time.