What Kermit the Frog Taught a Future COO - Stephanie Allen on And That Changed Everything

[00:00:00] Mary: Hello listeners and curious people. It's not every day you get to meet someone whose childhood idol was none other than Kermit the Frog. Today's guest is Stephanie Allen. She is a fractional COO who specializes in improving operations in small to mid-size businesses. She drives efficiency, productivity, profitability, and helps businesses scale.

[00:00:23] Mary: I know this because she is our fractional COO and a Superstar and I learned through this conversation that she had a unique take on Kermit the Frog when she watched the Muppet show growing up. Um. You know, all of the chaos in the theater and Kermit running around trying to figure it all out as the stage, hand stage producer, I guess.

[00:00:43] Mary: And, uh, Stephanie looked at Kermit and said, you know what? I think I can do better. And here she is today doing that for businesses. Um, it's a great conversation with Stephanie. I love meeting and talking with people who have strengths and skills that I do not have. And, um, you know, even better I get to invite her into our business to help us out.

[00:01:02] Mary: So I hope you enjoy the conversation.

Welcome to and that changed everything. I'm your host, Mary Fearon, and this is a show where some of the world's most interesting and successful people unpack three pivotal moments that shaped who they are and how they show up. I've been working with business leaders for decades, and it's clear, it's the stories, not the titles that shape us.

These moments change how we lead, how we live, and what we make possible. I learned so much from each of these conversations, and I hope you do too. Let's jump in.

[00:01:35] Mary: Hello everyone and welcome. I am here today with Stephanie Allen, who is our fractional COO business leader, owner, visionary herself, who's made it her mission to help other business owners, focus on operations process running the business well so it can grow and. That visionary business owner can live life on their terms and have the impact they want.

[00:02:01] Mary: So I'm eternally grateful to having Stephanie as part of our business and on this show to talk a bit about how she evolved to be in this place, doing these things and our format. Is a simple one, you know, uh, people, you know, we are a result of the experiences that we have. And some moments in our life are big or small things, decisions we've made, things that have happened to us and you know, which we always know happened for us.

[00:02:30] Mary: And so we're here to talk about three moments in Stephanie's life that have led her to this place. So, Stephanie, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for that warm welcome and I'm, I'm thrilled to be here today. Thank you. This will be really fun. So there's not a lot of structure other than let's talk about like, and, and, um, I know that you've had a little bit of time to think through what some of those moments might be.

[00:02:53] Mary: I always like to kind of start at the beginning or, or as far back as we can go. . Um, as you wanna go with just a little bit about you, I think a little bit about what you're doing in the world, and then let's dig into that first, that first memory, that first moment that, that first decision.

[00:03:11] Stephanie: Sounds good.

[00:03:11] Stephanie: I think if I was to put in one sentence, what I'm all about and what I do in the world today is I fix broken systems and make them great, right? Like I can always see like when a system needs a little bit of an adjustment, and so I see the world. In systems and a lot of the challenges we have in business or what I see outside in the world, that's what I do and I, I always, I think a little bit differently.

[00:03:35] Stephanie: I think about things as well, which gives me some good objectivity perspective and I like to provoke thought. So I just went into a workshop, uh, the other day and I asked people if you could ask your future self. And so I said, I showed a picture of what AI may said I would look like at one 20, and I only hope to look that good when I'm 120, but I said like, let's hope to get to 120.

[00:03:58] Stephanie: Yeah, exactly. You know what, that's, you know, that's, that's how I, you know, think it's actually, Dan Sullivan inspired me to ask that question, like he's the one that taught me that question. And so I asked that question. I was really. surprised no one had a thought of what they would ask their future self.

[00:04:20] Stephanie: And so that's an example of like how, like every day I'm trying to like, encourage people to think, I don't care what what it is, but just like try to think a little differently or think about something you haven't thought about. And I think I bring that into the work I do as well. So that's like, that's summing me up systems and, and provoking thought.

[00:04:37] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:04:37] Mary: You know, it's interesting, it's the first time you've mentioned that about systems and I so appreciate that because I am not a systems thinker, although I appreciate systems and that's probably why the two of us found each other. Because I have big dreams around where we wanna go with the business and the impact that we wanna have.

[00:04:54] Mary: And I also know that systems are enabling and so the way that you see our business, and some of the opportunities and gaps and all of that, it's funny because. I think a certain way and you think a certain way, and those aren't always, well, sometimes they feel it cross purposes and that is good for us.

[00:05:12] Mary: It's the, it's the tension that makes us better, so. . Um, I appreciate that. Once you told me that your mission is to bring peace, is it peace that you said or?

[00:05:24] Stephanie: Oh, well, there's

[00:05:25] Stephanie: two things. One, my mission is to create flexibility and financial freedom for everyone I work with. Love it. But my, my, I think I was born to help people be peaceful, like inner peace.

[00:05:36] Stephanie: Yeah. And so I bring that into the work I do. So when I'm, especially when I'm working with leaders or management managers or director level . Uh, positions. There is a lot of things that go on as you evolve from being a doer to a leader, and there are assumptions and misunderstandings and things like that that you have to work through.

[00:05:56] Stephanie: But basically our emotional intelligence, needs to keep up with our . Professional growth or we can't show up as our best self. And so because I've done all that work and I've gone from someone that was con like very. Anxious and worried all the time to someone who's very calm and peaceful. and maybe we'll get into that as one of those moments that change that.

[00:06:18] Stephanie: Uh, but anyway. Oh, I love it because I've gone through that journey. I really helped to give. A way for other people to find that for themselves too. I'm not a psychologist, but I have a lot of tools in my toolbox that I use. Like I say, Hey, why don't you check this out? Or, you know, maybe you wanna ask for help in this area.

[00:06:33] Stephanie: That kind of thing.

[00:06:35] Mary: You know what's interesting as it relates to me as a business owner and you working with us in our AL COO capacity for you to say that one of your goals is to bring peace, even just stating that. is a disarming feeling. It's like, oh, okay, so you're not here to challenge me all the time and make me feel like, 'cause you do, because I mean, that is part of the job too, right?

[00:07:00] Mary: Because I, I mean, I'm, I'm inviting input 'cause I know I don't know how to, how to do things and all the things well, right. But just having that stating that intention gave me a sense of calm. And, uh, I think that's a, that's a unique. Differentiator for someone in your role to be able to say that? I think that's pretty cool.

[00:07:19] Stephanie: well, thank you. And I think we do that maybe on a weekly basis. Sometimes, like even just the other day I said, if you're good, I'm good. And I went with what? Yeah. You wanted. But it was after I shared all my thoughts and where I was concerned. And as long as you knew that and you're still good to go forward, then I'm happy to go forward.

[00:07:35] Stephanie: Like it's not . It's not about me. I think that's too, it's like it's about servicing. People you wanna help at the end of the day, making sure they're getting what they want with educated and educated about how they're getting there. That's the goal. .

[00:07:49] Mary: Yeah. . I love it. Okay, so, 'cause I have like a bunch of other questions about the why of this decision for you to be a fractional COO and where is the joy and all of that.

[00:07:58] Mary: But I think we'll get to that as we um Yes. Start looking back. So why don't you tell me a little bit about the moments and we can start with the first one.

[00:08:09] Stephanie: Well, I can share a fun story. Do you wanna know when I decided I wanted to be a fractional COO? Yes. Like I maybe know it that way, but it was when I was a really young kid, it was like a, I was like a, you know, maybe six to eight years old.

[00:08:23] Stephanie: And my hero, my childhood hero was Kermit the Frog. And it was because he would. Bring all these like interesting, creative, eclectic groups of puppets together and you know, like these characters I love. And he'd be behind the scenes worried about the money, making sure everything would work. Like the, the, you know, the theater would be sometimes falling apart, but they're still practicing and moving forward.

[00:08:47] Stephanie: And he'd be like a big dreamer and then things wouldn't go right. And he'd have like all these personalities to deal with, but the show went on. So I think that that was when I knew I wanted, like I wanted to be Kermit the Frog. And the closest way to be Kermit the Frog in real life from my perspective is to be in operations, to be a producer in operations behind the scenes, trying to like help everyone do their great work, like to be awesome and perform in whatever that role is.

[00:09:14] Stephanie: And so I think that's when it started. And so every decision I made. About my career from like project management to director of A PMO to COO and now running a consultancy that's all about helping as a second in command integrator for businesses. It's like that's really cool that my, like my kid self is getting to do those things in real life.

[00:09:37] Mary: I think that's amazing to be a kid and to see that and the chaos that ensues and the, I mean, it even goes to. Because like putting on a show in the background, like the backstage is, can be a crazy place if the, you know. Yeah. and the chaos of it. A lot of people would be like, would have an aversion to that space.

[00:09:56] Mary: But you lean, you're leaning in and saying they could do this better through systems. Yeah. Kermit, listen to me.

[00:10:03] Stephanie: Yeah. Well, and it's also probably because I grew up in a chaotic household. Okay. You know, my friends used to come over to the house and they felt it was like walking into a tornado. There was always someone going somewhere, something going on.

[00:10:15] Stephanie: And uh, and so that, tell me about that. What was going where? Well, I had two sib, I have two siblings and my mom and my dad, and so my mom was just like, still around, but she like was uh, working several jobs and making sure her kids had a great life and so she put us in everything. It was like extracurricular, which is really fun.

[00:10:35] Stephanie: We got to be exposed to things with my adult self, understands it was like. It was really affordable childcare. Right? Like go to the sport, do this theater, all that. Right. It was to help us, you know, help manage the household, but also she also wanted us to explore and figure out what we wanted to do in life.

[00:10:52] Stephanie: And so there was just always somewhere, someone going somewhere and my mom was just really busy, couldn't sit still, and we were always doing something and so it was like finishing dinner or something else. It was just when they would come to. You know, come to meet me to go after dinner and stuff like that.

[00:11:05] Stephanie: So I didn't know anything else until I started to get exposed and understand what other environments were like. Yeah. So that was, that's probably why I didn't really, doesn't, chaos doesn't bother me. Like I, I grew up in that.

[00:11:18] Mary: Okay. So that's super interesting. I have, um, I had a lot of change growing up in my life and I have three siblings and I had said to somebody at one point that the amount of change I had as a kid.

[00:11:31] Mary: Absolutely served me for the best. The sort of visionary, adaptable, brain. Flexible. What about this da da da can pivot on, um, you know, yeah. pivot on a dime kind of thing. That served me. I, have a sister who said, I actually don't think it worked for me. And some of the decisions that she made in her life were, subsequently very rooted in.

[00:11:52] Mary: Stability and, security and things like that because she was like, not everybody responds to chaotic environment or whatever the same way, but So do you think it served you?

[00:12:04] Stephanie: I think it did, and I think that's also what led me to my, my desire to have peaceful environments. Right. So I think it was also seeing a better way, a different way, wanting it differently.

[00:12:15] Stephanie: So my, the way my family is, is very different. Like if you, like ours is very calm and low key. We know how to have, we know how to do not like to just have downtime together. Doesn't mean I'm not going busy Monday to Friday or sometimes on weekends, but I know how to like take that pause and restore.

[00:12:32] Stephanie: Whereas, you know, my mom. Struggles to do that even in her seventies. And so when I visit her, my goal is to help her relax. Like I go with the intention of like taking care of her, making her dinner, like giving her that, be like giving her a little p piece of me and that essence so that she can just like.

[00:12:53] Stephanie: You have those moments with me. yeah. And then I go along for the crazy ride when she visits. 'cause she's always, you know, wants to go here, go there and there's stuff she has to do and just relax. But, you know, just accepting her for who she is. Right. Like that's right.

[00:13:05] Mary: How she's wired and how she's gonna show up.

[00:13:07] Mary: Yeah. And

[00:13:08] Stephanie: she does amazing things like she has her. Doctrine education and she's still working in her seventies and she's not slowing down and she has ability to live in three different countries. Like she's a go-getter, right? So,

[00:13:20] Mary: dude, I

[00:13:20] Mary: love your mom already. I think that's amazing. I was like,

[00:13:23] Stephanie: so she was a great example

[00:13:24] Mary: seeing my future

[00:13:24] Mary: self.

[00:13:25] Stephanie: Yeah. Yeah. She was a great example for all that. So, um,

[00:13:28] Mary: can there be calm in chaos?

[00:13:32] Stephanie: I think so. Isn't that what meditation's for?

[00:13:35] Mary: Well, you know, I have a relationship with meditation that understands it's the easiest thing to do and also the hardest thing to do.

[00:13:43] Mary: Yeah.

[00:13:44] Mary: Uh, it's not easy to slow the mind down.

[00:13:47] Mary: And so, yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. I'm just thinking about like in the, um. Producing in a high delivery environment in any business, whether you're manufacturing vanities or you're in our business of communications and, you know, delivering on moments in time and speeches and articles and interviews and things like that, that can be quite intense in terms of pace.

[00:14:12] Mary: And we don't always. We can't always direct when things hit because the world makes them hit whenever they do. Like, you know, if a story hits the media and we need clients to respond to it, it's like, oh, well you gotta jump on it now so it can, it can throw like a grenade in the middle of a good plan. And so, I have a sense.

[00:14:32] Mary: Yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts? I, well, I was just gonna say, I have a sense that you. Would look at that and go, okay, well here's what we're gonna do about it. We're gonna move this over here, and then we're gonna do that and we're gonna call on this person. And so there's a way of kind of neutralizing what could feel, scattered and, and scary.

[00:14:54] Mary: There's a way to, to still deliver inside the chaos a level of calm and plan and priority. And, you know, because we have a good system, we know what to do in this situation. That's how it feels to me.

[00:15:06] Stephanie: Yes.

[00:15:07] Stephanie: Yes. And there are just times where it's going to be intense. So I think you have to understand, like, I, I plan for that.

[00:15:13] Stephanie: Like you can anticipate that's what experience brings, right? So when you're launching something new or you know that a story is landing, making sure that our days are structured, that you have that downtime before. Almost like the press release hits kind of thing, right? So

[00:15:28] Stephanie: yeah,

[00:15:28] Stephanie: I find, and I know this be like early in the morning, protecting that time for me and my, my routine to be ready and then I can handle anything that comes my way.

[00:15:38] Stephanie: The rest of the day. The, the challenge happens. If I can't have that downtime, then I have to restructure the day a little bit to make sure I'm not. Gonna lose steam, like staying energized. But that's where nutrition and exercise and techniques like meditation that come in. So if you have a toolbox like that, you can navigate it.

[00:15:54] Stephanie: But, so there's times, and I think because of my theater days and my working with print and things are going on the press and you can't change it. Once the in kits, the paper, there's a lot of intensity that way. It was all about how to make sure those mistakes don't happen at that stage of the process.

[00:16:09] Stephanie: . So you're always, I was already always iterating and figuring out how to prevent that. I knew to have recovery time after that. So it'd be like, Hey, I'm probably gonna have three days of really intense work time, but then I get to recover on that. . Fourth day. And I, a nutritionist that reminds me of this, like I have a lot of coaching.

[00:16:27] Stephanie: She's like, I was waiting too long to recover before I worked with her. She's like, you can't wait till the weekend to recover. You have to recover right after it happens. And so that's how I prevent burnout, because you can't, you can't say, oh, I'm gonna recover. On this vacation or in like two weeks from now, because Christmas doesn't understand that.

[00:16:44] Stephanie: Right. It's like you have to find a time to recover shortly after that happens.

[00:16:49] Mary: Yeah. I live in delusion a lot with my book over Overcommitting and sense that I can just do it all. If there's, if it's in the calendar and I can physically get from A to B and do X, Y, Z, then I will, uh, fill up my time and tell myself that it's, .

[00:17:06] Mary: I've got this. Yeah. So I have definitely hit the wall at different stages. Yeah. More often probably than I want to. And if it, you know, just little breaks in between, we'll probably fix that. So tell me about, 'cause you haven't always been this way. These are skills and tools. You've learned that, you have a toolbox over time.

[00:17:25] Mary: Yeah. So tell me who you used to be and you said something, you mentioned something about anxiety before and living with that. And at what point in your life did you notice that? When was it its highest and how did you resolve it?

[00:17:39] Stephanie: I think it was when I was a teenager, it was the highest. Okay. And it was because I always wanted to be on like step 10 before I did step one.

[00:17:49] Stephanie: So like I could see into the future of like where I needed to go and I thought I had to do all that. So it was the skill of breaking down the doable steps leading to that, that was part of it. Okay. And then it was just talking to people, right? Like my mom was a good mentor, uh, to listen, I talked with. I had a career coach when later on in my twenties.

[00:18:12] Mary: And you did, eh? Yeah. That's pretty

[00:18:13] Mary: early to know, to kind of engage coaching. That's awesome. I've always, my first coach was when I was like 45. It's like five years, years.

[00:18:19] Stephanie: I always

[00:18:20] Stephanie: knew where I wanted to go and I wanted to get there faster. Okay. And I, you know, my mom was my first cheerleader. Like she helped me start my business when I was like 14, 15.

[00:18:29] Stephanie: So I had my first business then. And um, what was it? It was a hotdog stand in a small town, and, uh, uh, that's awesome. You know, the. The, one of the bank managers rented me a little plot of land for a very afford, affordable price, and, and then my sister ran the pastry cart, you know, at the bank down the road.

[00:18:45] Stephanie: And so it was really cool. And I just, I think that's where I got my entrepreneur, entrepreneur bug, but I didn't know it like at the time. . And it was really successful 'cause I listened to what the customers wanted and it was a great job. And I think that's when I started to calm down, like, oh, I could kind of create space, I can work hard, but then be the master of my own time after I'm done that and still make money.

[00:19:06] Stephanie: And so I think that's when I realized I could do things a different way. And then in, uh, in my career, in my. In my mid to late twenties, I was dissatisfied with not getting further in my career. So I, I hired a career coach and everything I put on that, like we did a whole mapping exercise, everything that was important happened in less than 10 years because I did all that work and so I was hooked.

[00:19:27] Stephanie: I knew that would happen. So ever since then, I've always been. Doing visual dream maps and now I have one for like 50 years because I don't wanna just think 10 years ahead. and they're not all mapped out, but I know, like I really know I can really see what I wanna do and where I wanna go, and then I become the person to do that.

[00:19:45] Stephanie: I think that's just how my brain's wired.

[00:19:47] Mary: Right? Yeah. Do you think, 'cause like it's interesting as somebody who is, have had a life experience and evolved to a certain place and when you look in the rear view mirror, you can kinda. Pinpoint the tools you have and the ways that you are and how that serves you today.

[00:20:05] Mary: it, it can sound like, oh, I'm just like this. But there have to be those moments in life where you're like, I don't got this. I don't know. This doesn't, this feels like upside down, inside out, and I don't know what's, what to do about it.

[00:20:22] Stephanie: Yeah. So the moment with that was in my. My mid thirties, I had had a baby.

[00:20:27] Stephanie: . You know, Ben, and he was, you know, still very young. And I was like, I don't wanna feel this way anymore. Like, I just didn't, I, I felt like my, feelings were driving my life, not my brain. . And I had, built this great support network with mentors and coaches in that. So, I got in touch with the right person to.

[00:20:49] Stephanie: Coach me and we just, they really helped me work on my historical trauma and get, like, it was better than psychology. It was like really deep stuff. And so, oh cool. I have that toolbox with me to this day. Like the cool thing with that is I was able to create a, a safe space for myself and identify like in the moment when something was historical feelings, not the moment in front of it.

[00:21:13] Stephanie: And that awareness to do that is how I can help so many leaders I like often. Like just the other week, I'm like, are you sure it's this moment? Are you sure it's not something else? And then what happens is they start to say, I think this isn't about this. Like they start to like, just after me repeating that and, and guiding them on that, yeah.

[00:21:29] Stephanie: They start to self-identify and they, they work with the books or the people I recommend. Yeah. Right. And so it's really cool. And now I think that's what really makes me feel joyful that I'm helping people. Like I think everyone deserves to have inner peace. If you can, if you're capable, like if you're of healthy mind and you have the capabilities to do that, I know there's sometimes certain situations you can't do that, but if you can, I just really think it's a, I think it's a human right.

[00:21:58] Mary: Yeah. That's beautiful. And I think, like I get this impression from you that. And you said this about yourself when you were young, you had, you're an achiever. You're like, oh, I see myself 10 years from now. Yeah. I see myself Kermit the frog. I'm gonna do your job and better, you know, I, when I grow up, like you had this like vision for that.

[00:22:19] Mary: And one thing I've grown to appreciate about you is that you are so heavily resourced. You could almost do a Saturday Night Live skit. of like moments in meetings and, um, Stephanie who works in our business and we have another Stephanie in our business. So we've Stephanie Allen, we call her s sometimes.

[00:22:37] Mary: And so if I slip, that is why, that's her nickname inside our business. Yeah. So there will be a topic, and it could be any topic and I, I bet we would never come to the end of the list of topics where Sal will, um, be talking to you and be like, wait a second. And she turns like a quarter of a. Of, of a circle grabs a book and it's like, this book might help you.

[00:22:58] Mary: It's like literally on every topic that Yeah. That you could possibly want. And so what I'm envisioning is, you know, you as a, as a young person is you're like, okay, well this doesn't work. I need a resource. I'm gonna go out and find the coaching, the book, talk to my mom, do the thing, solve, and then, you grew that resourcefulness.

[00:23:22] Mary: Over, like, you know, as life got bigger and more complicated, you had that resourcefulness with you. So along the way, whether it was, um, I mean the hotdog stand, then you have the, in my twenties, I'm not moving as fast as I want to. What's up with that? And what's so cool about that is that, um, a lot of people in their twenties are frustrated with lack of growth and like.

[00:23:44] Mary: I mean, I've been around for a while and hired and coached many people at, that stage of their life. They're out of university. I have a few years of experience and they are, like, hang on a second. I know more than I'm getting credit for. I, you know, whatever. a lot of people get frustrated and say, it's my boss, it's the company.

[00:24:07] Mary: They don't get me. I'm not appreciated. Which could be true. What I love about what you did was like, I gotta go figure this out. And so you went and got help to work on you versus the other story, which is kind of the victim story of the world doesn't get me, it's so unfair, I'm gonna quit, go somewhere else.

[00:24:27] Mary: And then a lot of times you find wherever you go there you are like, it's not gonna solve the problem. That's right. Because you haven't worked on yourself. Right?

[00:24:34] Stephanie: Yeah. and, and all those things are how I help others. So. I've really leaned into the fact that I'm also a teacher. I'm not just, you know, chief operating officer.

[00:24:50] Stephanie: You know, it's I've, this is the year I think I've realized I'm also teacher. I can teach.

[00:24:55] Mary: Yeah, that's so true too. I would offer up too, in a fractional CO role, you, you have, you work with a number of organizations and so you're not steeped in one. So you come in, you have an objective view and a somewhat limited timeframe engaging with folks.

[00:25:12] Mary: And so if you weren't a teacher, then you couldn't have the impact that you wanna have in an organization. 'cause the organization needs to be able to, on some level, stand without you.

[00:25:24] Stephanie: Yes.

[00:25:25] Mary: Some part of their week and year. Yeah. And all of that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, so where did teacher come from?

[00:25:32] Stephanie: Well, I grew up around, surrounded by teachers.

[00:25:35] Stephanie: Okay. And I, I volunteered in classrooms and I made a decision very, all around. I would not be a school teacher. It was just a lot. It's just, it was too bureaucratic. I'm a bit defiant and I like to change the rules and it wouldn't work. So, yeah. So I think it was just wanting to teach people how to do great work.

[00:25:57] Stephanie: It was like really being able to explain, I think because I've done the, the hard work, I can then show people how to do it and yeah,

[00:26:05] Mary: I

[00:26:05] Mary: think that's powerful because when people are trying to better themselves and then they get a bunch of advice from experts, it can feel a little bit like, okay, fine. Yeah, you're you.

[00:26:17] Mary: I'm me. You don't know what it's like to walk in my shoes. But if you are, you come from a place often of, well, I had to work this out. This is what I did. This is the resource I had. And so for, it's a, it's a disarming quality. . When you share, because it's like a, it's like a, an invitation to be in it with you and you're in it with them, you know?

[00:26:41] Stephanie: Yes. And it requires being vulnerable. This is why people say, great leaders show a bit of vulnerability. . If you don't talk about your failure, then the people that are looking up to you or looking to you for guidance think, oh, well that's you. I could never be like you. . But when you reveal how you failed and got past that, then there's this little shimmer of hope that, oh, maybe I could do that too.

[00:27:02] Stephanie: And that's when the magic happens of leading someone. Not being all perfect and showing how it is, but like, even when you, you mess up or when you, when you have had a failure using that storytelling to, to help them buy into it. And uh, that's how it's, and I think the reason I had, I went through all this, like had to search for it is 'cause I didn't have any safety net.

[00:27:23] Stephanie: Like, it, I, very early on I knew like if it was gonna get better, it was on me to make it better. . Because, so what, what's a safe, what, would be a version of a safety net? Like who has a safety that you could move back home? I didn't have that option. Oh, okay. There was no home to move back to. Wow.

[00:27:39] Stephanie: I didn't have any. Oh, well, when I was 18, uh, my mom had the opportunity to go work in California and I was in my wrapping up my first year of university.

[00:27:50] Mary: Oh, they left you?

[00:27:51] Stephanie: Well, they gave me a choice.

[00:27:53] Mary: Yeah,

[00:27:54] Mary: I get it.

[00:27:54] Stephanie: I could, I could go with them or I could stay.

[00:27:57] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:27:58] Stephanie: And all that I went through for those 18 years.

[00:28:02] Stephanie: I knew I didn't wanna go with that. . And it didn't matter how scared I was, like I thought anything else was better than that. So I chose to stay and then that's really when everything changed as well. Like that's why I probably went to the career coach early. Right. That's why. Right. I probably wanted to move fast in my career because I wanted to make as much money as I could quickly to.

[00:28:24] Stephanie: To provide for myself. Right. That kind of stuff.

[00:28:26] Mary: . Yeah. Wow. So that is a massive turning point. Would that be one of your top three?

[00:28:32] Stephanie: Yeah,

[00:28:33] Stephanie: definitely. Because without that I wouldn't have met my husband. I wouldn't have my son. I wouldn't be so brave. Right. Like that was a really brave move and so nothing really scares me.

[00:28:46] Stephanie: It's like no matter what, I know that I can get through it. Yeah.

[00:28:50] Mary: Yeah. You can

[00:28:51] Mary: bet on yourself. 'cause you did and it worked out.

[00:28:54] Stephanie: Exactly. That's a very powerful move. Like if, if you ever have the opportunity in life for anyone who's listening, if you have a chance to bet on yourself, no matter how old you are,

[00:29:02] Stephanie: yeah,

[00:29:02] Stephanie: go for it.

[00:29:03] Stephanie: It'll only help you get to where you wanna go better, in a better way. Yeah.

[00:29:08] Mary: That is a hundred percent my experience. And, and it's when you have, um, it's the path of no return. Yeah. You can't go, there's no like plan B. It's like I'm doing this and it must work. There is no failure. And so that you, in my experience, you call on different resources.

[00:29:27] Mary: At that point, you, you find a way. You. Yeah. You find the strength, the courage, the whatever, to put yourself out there in ways that you wouldn't have before when things are safe and comfortable. And it's interesting 'cause I think even about my own kids, they've grown up in this pretty storybook life so far.

[00:29:49] Mary: Knock on wood. I don't know, like, you know. Yeah, same, same school. You know, we have a wonderful family. There's lots of joy and love in these walls and you know, they're both, you know, one's in university, one's going off to university next year. They talk constantly. They're very grateful, wonderful people about their great life.

[00:30:07] Mary: Yeah. And I'm like, Ooh, you know, and you would never as a parent wish hardship, but on some level, like I had a lot of disruption. In a house that was like in a family that was, there was unconditional love in my family and all that. We had a lot of disruption growing up. And so I worry sometimes about a generation that things have been good.

[00:30:27] Mary: And so how do you find the

[00:30:30] Stephanie: tools? Well, I think life will give it to them. I think life gives you those challenges, right? They'll experience things differently than we did. .

[00:30:37] Mary: And maybe at a different time. Right?

[00:30:39] Stephanie: In a different time. Like same with my son, like he's having. His own challenge is different that I don't understand,

[00:30:45] Stephanie: but

[00:30:45] Stephanie: also a lot more calm and safety than I ever had.

[00:30:50] Mary: Yeah,

[00:30:50] Stephanie: I

[00:30:50] Stephanie: like to think about,

[00:30:51] Mary: which is

[00:30:51] Mary: beautiful 'cause it's not like there's that be less trauma that you have to

[00:30:57] Mary: overcome or deal with or whatever.

[00:30:59] Stephanie: Here's what I think. I think that time that we're creating for our children, if we can create that space, is actually creating this awesome foundation.

[00:31:09] Stephanie: That they're gonna go out into the world, but then they'll come back to us and like enjoy being around us. Right. There's a consequence to growing up with all that disruption and chaos and things like that, and like dispersing a family across many countries and that there's a, the, the, . The trade off is that there is not this close knit circle of family later on in life.

[00:31:30] Stephanie: It's very individual. Like you meet with one sibling, or you meet with one parent. Yeah. It's not like you all come together and I don't want that future. And so this is the foundation . To have that future where we come together again. Right. And I, and so that, that's what we're building when we do this and have this really intentional way of raising our children.

[00:31:50] Stephanie: . And creating the space for them. I also think they, like, I think our children might get places faster with that foundation than we did. Like, my son is already making decisions at 12 that I wouldn't have been capable, capable of doing. Right. And so that, that fascinates me. And then is what we know, what's going on in the world with, with the advancement of AI and technology.

[00:32:12] Stephanie: I think there are gonna be different challenges for our children that we can't even. Understand yet.

[00:32:18] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:32:19] Mary: We can't even contemplate what they are.

[00:32:20] Stephanie: That's

[00:32:21] Stephanie: right.

[00:32:21] Mary: Yeah.

[00:32:21] Stephanie: Yeah. And so that's when, that's when they're going to have their version of what we had, but they'll, and they'll be, they'll be better equipped to handle those things because of the family life they grew up in.

[00:32:33] Mary: Right. Right. Yeah, I, do think those are really solid foundations and values and, and, you know, learning to be good humans and all those tools that they have, uh, yeah. It's hard to disconnect from, geez, all of the most of the time. So I work with lots of business leaders and we work on the story of who they are and then how that translates into the business that they're building and all of that.

[00:32:59] Mary: I wanna the, oftentimes I'll ask the question Yeah. About the three moments that, you know shaped you, or, or you know, you know, tell me how you got here. And the first thing people will say often is, well, I was the soccer prodigy, or I was, you know, top of my class and I was one of few people chosen to be in x, y, Z program.

[00:33:20] Mary: And there's a lot of like accomplishment story stuff. And then you dig up below the surface and you're like, okay, but that's not. That those are good accomplishments and you certainly would've learned from them and grown from them. But let's talk about the things that are uncomfortable. Let's talk about, you know, the failures, the challenges, the messy stuff, and it's those things like most growth comes from challenge.

[00:33:44] Mary: Most growth comes from adversity. and so I just think it's, it's, interesting 'cause I'm like, okay, I'm looking for the adversity as a, catalyst to growth. But I mean, hey, my kids are little. They're not so, so little, but they're, you know, they have a whole life ahead of them to experience all those things.

[00:34:02] Mary: And they certainly had the growing pains that you go through. And as a kid in school and socially. You know, identity stuff around, you know, I mean, our fundamentals, fears are, you know, will people love me and am I good enough? Like everybody has those things on different levels. So, yeah, it's the, we often go back, like if we're being real with ourselves, we go back to those moments of, oh yeah.

[00:34:28] Mary: Yeah, I didn't do that well, or that happened and it was a challenge, but I overcame it. Like your parents moving 3000 miles away at 18, that's a hardship. Even though you'd made it, you've made the most of it. It's, it's a hardship to deal with. yeah, definitely. Okay, so we have Kermit the Frog. Yeah.

[00:34:50] Mary: And I see myself as the producer and I can see the system at four years old that I can improve. We have 18 years old and you're on your own, which calls up all kinds of independence and self-reliance and resourcefulness and all of that. We have the, um, is it in your twenties when you got a career coach or is it when Yeah.

[00:35:09] Mary: Okay. Is that the, yeah. Okay. Because I was, I was, I was also curious and I, and I think that's amazing for you to go, because that is a challenge too. It's like, I'm not where I wanna be. Yeah, something's not right here and I'm gonna invite the input. That's pretty cool.

[00:35:23] Mary: Yeah.

[00:35:25] Mary: and then the fourth though, which you kind of brushed over, it was 'cause it was the, um, when you had been, and you were saying, I don't wanna be governed by feelings anymore.

[00:35:35] Mary: Yeah. That the,

[00:35:36] Stephanie: yeah. I wanted

[00:35:37] Stephanie: to be, I wanted to be, I wanted to take care of certain things so it didn't show shine through in my parenting. It was like a, it was like, um, okay. It was like, I'm not okay. Like there's stuff I haven't dealt with. Okay. And, you know, being a successful COO, being married, having a kid that didn't all make it go away.

[00:35:59] Stephanie: And so it was like, well, I guess there's stuff, there's something else here that I've gotta like figure out.

[00:36:05] Stephanie: .

[00:36:05] Stephanie: Um, so I. There was two things. One, I went to see a therapist before I got the coaching because I don't, just going from not being a mom to being a mom in the first couple years was really an adjustment for me.

[00:36:23] Stephanie: .

[00:36:23] Stephanie: And nothing when as planned, like how I visioned like the baby ears being. So when I went to that, thinking that. And it was actually some good friends at the time that that recommended this person. Like I've always just had these great connections in my life that said, oh, Steph, try this. It's probably why I'm doing the way I am.

[00:36:40] Stephanie: I'm always paying it forward because that's what people did for me. And so I went going in thinking there was something wrong with my marriage, and I figured out there was a lot of crap from my past I hadn't dealt with. And it didn't take a long time to figure it out. But once I did that, that was freeing.

[00:36:56] Stephanie: And so then when I noticed something else going on that was different. I worked with, Audrey Sahota at the time. She doesn't do one-on-one coaching anymore, but she was like my spiritual coach. Okay. And she's amazing. She's like studied all over the world and she's actually works in Agile coaching and helps businesses be healthy through Agile and Oh, okay.

[00:37:18] Stephanie: Yeah. So, So her and, and, and Michael Sahota was my, one of my mentors co like, at the time. And he was like, you need to talk to Audrey, who's his wife. Okay. And I said, okay. And so I did. And I just went like, she's the one who helped me manage the trauma of my past and finally deal with it. . And it was beautiful.

[00:37:40] Stephanie: And so she wrote a book called Emotional Science and uh, that's the, that book that has all the steps to do it that she taught me. And so I, I probably go through that book. Every year, every couple of years if I'm feeling like I, I'm good, but I'm probably doing little things all the time from that, that coaching.

[00:37:57] Stephanie: But it was, that was really, that was freedom to me. Like today, I feel like, and, and so it took me a long time to actually unconditionally love myself. And so now being in my forties, I think that that's the, the, the best life you could live is if you unconditionally love yourself. Now that I feel like I've achieved that, you know, a little, I'm, I'm a couple years away from being 50 and I'm really excited about the next few decades because I don't have, you know, people say, oh, fifties, you don't care what anyone thinks.

[00:38:28] Stephanie: Well, I think that's a really fun, catchy thing to say, but you only feel that way if you've worked on yourself. And it might take four decades, four to five decades for you to figure it out as a human.

[00:38:38] Mary: . Right.

[00:38:38] Stephanie: So that's, that's like, that's to me, like the inner piece. Like if you can unconditionally love yourself.

[00:38:44] Stephanie: Then you can. . Like there, it doesn't matter what happens in your life, you can navigate it.

[00:38:50] Mary: I love that so much. And um, that's one of the reasons I'm so excited about doing this podcast is 'cause I learn. Yes then, and I learned through these conversations and the stories,

[00:38:58] Stephanie: I know I haven't told any

[00:38:58] Stephanie: of these things yet.

[00:38:59] Stephanie: It's like you're asking these questions and you're getting these answers.

[00:39:02] Mary: Well yeah. So I learned about you and then like, you know, we're, we're human and so your experience is my experience. And so I'm hearing you talk about inner peace and I am dealing with my, it's so funny 'cause I just turned 50 this year and what I find interesting about the 50 thing is people going, no, you don't give a shit anymore, but whatever.

[00:39:21] Mary: In my world, I'm so excited about fifties because of who I am, where I am, what I'm doing in the world. I feel like I'm aligned with my purpose. So like not caring about what other people think would be like. 15 on the list of reasons I'm excited about this stage of life, but that's the one that comes up so much with people.

[00:39:42] Mary: Yeah. But what's the part that's interesting? Well, I mean, there's a million interesting things about this, but when you talk about self love and unconditional love of self, I wonder, 'cause I go, huh? Do I unconditionally love myself? I think so. But since we don't do that thinking and digging and work, now I'm pausing to ask the question, which I think is beautiful.

[00:39:59] Mary: You've triggered that for me.

[00:40:01] Mary: . And,

[00:40:02] Mary: um, the trauma stuff, like, there's a lot that goes on in the nervous system that we don't know about. And so I'm thinking through in my own life as I'm entering different transitions with, you know, you're gonna go through hormone changes and you know, all this stuff that's a physiological thing.

[00:40:18] Mary: My, um, nervous system and cortisol levels and stuff are, are coming up in some of, some of the tests that I'm doing, which would show a nervous system that's like a little challenged, even though in my head I'm great. I do all these things to live a healthy life in terms of diet, exercise, sleep, don't meditate enough.

[00:40:37] Mary: That's probably connected to this. but I think it's just so interesting for you. Going through all of this and now saying, you know, connecting inner peace to releasing trauma. Yeah, definitely. That's part of it and, and sometimes I think when I think about the disruption I have had in my life, whether it was when I was young or whatever, those are kind of like my, um.

[00:41:02] Mary: What's the word? Badges of honor. I'm like, oh yeah, I made it through that. It was great for me. Like so I have a story in my head that those things worked for me, which I think is positive, but sometimes I wonder, am I not seeing something and is it worth, you do a lot of this work, you do a lot of seeking.

[00:41:18] Mary: You find the right people and resources to unearth this stuff. I think what's powerful about your story and for anybody who listens to it is like, huh, do I have inner peace? Do I have self-love? Am I inviting reinforcements and support where I could? Because if we don't have, we have our blinders onto that stuff, we could be living less of an experience than we really want to.

[00:41:43] Mary: And, uh, so anyway, I think that's super powerful.

[00:41:48] Stephanie: I, do, that's really well said. I love how you, you phrased all that. You're, you're inspiring me to say that I've always really been fascinated with the mind. How our mind works.

[00:41:58] Stephanie: .

[00:41:58] Stephanie: And the older I get, the more I realize that it's not always right. Right.

[00:42:03] Stephanie: So that, uh, the, you know, is what I'm thinking for survival. 'cause my mind is like on a loop. And I, like, I, I think I've intentionally tried to rewire my brain on a lot of things like how I see myself. How I want to be in the world, how my thoughts about finance, like money, right? You can't be an entrepreneur and be worried about money.

[00:42:28] Stephanie: You know? You have to really work on your money philosophy a bit, right? And it wasn't until I worked that out, that was the last piece, the financial part for me. Yeah. It was done that I could start my own business.

[00:42:40] Mary: That's so

[00:42:41] Mary: interesting because of all the entrepreneurs who might listen to this or future entrepreneurs, I'm not sure how many have resolved that issue.

[00:42:51] Mary: Because I think a lot of people worry about money and don't have a good relationship with it either, I think.

[00:42:56] Stephanie: Yeah. So I, which is just speculating. I don't worry about it the same way, but I put things in my life and I have a diverse portfolio of options in my family. Right? Yeah. Like I often say to my husband, because you're a teacher, you've given me the gift to be able to run my own business.

[00:43:12] Stephanie: And it's really helped him realize like, oh, I can feel proud of that. Like, 'cause he wants to do something different when he retires. . But the fact like, he's starting to like take pride in that. Like when he is telling, he's like, he's rewritten his story because I told him like, this is only possible because you are in my life.

[00:43:29] Stephanie: I don't have to worry about money the same way. Right. And we lived very, very simply. You know, I make certain decisions to like not have certain things so I don't have to be at the mercy of, you know, money Yeah. Kind of thing. Right. So that. There's, if you let go of things about money, you don't worry about it.

[00:43:45] Stephanie: It gives you a lot of ability to take chances that you might not have normally done.

[00:43:49] Mary: Yeah. Maybe that's a new frontier for a lot of people, including me in different ways.

[00:43:54] Mary: Yeah.

[00:43:55] Mary: so let me ask you a final question. Who would you be without these moments that lead these critical moments?

[00:44:05] Stephanie: Yeah. I can't answer.

[00:44:05] Stephanie: I

[00:44:05] Stephanie: don't even know if I could answer that. Yeah, I can't. I don't know. Like, I've always, I, it's more like I'm always dreaming about the person I'm going to be. I'm not looking back thinking like who I would've been without it. . I'm thinking like, can I become that woman that I hope to be?

[00:44:28] Mary: Did you ever done the strengths finder?

[00:44:30] Mary: You, you have like the assessment, the Clifton strengths. I think so the reason I ask Yeah, is you get 35, you get 34, everybody has 34 strengths, is the premise of,

[00:44:39] Stephanie: I think I've done the free version, so I'm not sure if

[00:44:41] Stephanie: I've seen the whole thing, but I'm sure I've done

[00:44:42] Mary: this weird that I haven't asked you to do it inside our business.

[00:44:44] Mary: 'cause it's another one of those I love. Okay, well I guess I'll be doing that soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, it, the one reason I like it is that you, we all have all 34, but your top five are the ones you go to the most. That's like your natural and the, when they say strengths, they're talking about your skills and passions.

[00:45:01] Mary: You love it. And you're great at it. It's those two things together. It can't be just, you're good at it, you're great at it and don't love it. It has to be those two things. So the assessment is based on that. the top five are the things you are great at and love most, and then the bottom five are the things that you don't love and probably aren't great at.

[00:45:19] Mary: Right? So when you talk about future, my number one strengths finder strength is futuristic, which means there's like, in the bottom five is context, which is history. Like I don't really care. Like I've moved on, I've got all these tools and I'm now looking, I have like a better picture of the future than I do even of the present, which can be challenging inside a business 'cause you're relating your vision and you want other people to join you on the bus and you need to be able to, you know, get from here to there.

[00:45:47] Mary: Right. So I was just curious about your, about yeah. Your relationship to the future and if that came up in that. Yeah. But we'll find out.

[00:45:57] Stephanie: I think if I had to guess. I think I would be totally an introvert and I wouldn't be taking risks. I guess I would just be, maybe I'd be working at a bank somewhere and just, you know, maybe own a home 'cause I played it safe and uh, yeah.

[00:46:16] Mary: That's fascinating to me because I do think that some of what that like great value bring to our business is the conscientiousness. We talk about business insurance and I'm like, we just pay less than last year. And then what I got back was a consideration of all of these potential risks and things we needed to put in place.

[00:46:36] Mary: Like it was so much more than I would've ever considered. And so I, that's, I think that's interesting. I think, you know, looking at, if you didn't have these moments in time to inspire you, Kermit the frog, or challenge you to say, you know what, if I don't do this, I'm not getting where I wanna go. You'd probably be playing it safe.

[00:46:58] Mary: Yeah. You'd have the paycheck. You could depend on the schedule. You understood the future. You could see 3, 4, 5 years, whatever in advance. 'cause you bring a lot of that Yeah. Value.

[00:47:09] Stephanie: That's a part of me. Yeah.

[00:47:10] Stephanie: I'm very analytical. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so I think that's goodness what it would be. But I, I, think that.

[00:47:20] Stephanie: It's just been too much fun. It's too much fun, and it's still more fun to have that. I just, I don't wanna think of that person. I'm glad she doesn't exist, if that makes sense. I, I like this version exists, you know, so

[00:47:30] Mary: a hundred percent. It's also though a very cool way of honoring your story and the path that got you here to go.

[00:47:37] Mary: Huh? What might I look like if I didn't have all these things? Well, for me, like. You know, and you're definitely telling a story that, that's consistent with this, like your life is a gift. The path you're on is the thing you love, so you wouldn't change any of it. .

[00:47:53] Mary: Um,

[00:47:54] Mary: and to look back and say, these are all the things I picked up along the way that made me who I am is a celebration of the journey, which is a totally worthwhile.

[00:48:03] Mary: Activity, you know?

[00:48:04] Stephanie: Yeah,

[00:48:04] Mary: Anyway, well, this is super fun. Thank you so much for doing this with me. A

[00:48:09] Stephanie: lot fun. I've learned so much from you. It's been a fun, it's been a lot of fun to, to hang out with you and it it, to have this type of conversation that we don't normally get to have, like this was a blast.

[00:48:18] Stephanie: Thank you.

[00:48:19] Mary: Awesome.

[00:48:20] Mary: Thanks

[00:48:21] Mary: for

[00:48:21] Mary: listening, everyone. We'll see you next time.