Two Friends, Three Pivotal Moments: Dr. Nik and James Prince on “And That Changed Everything”

 

[00:00:00] Mary: Hey folks. This episode is with two very good friends of mine and my co-conspirators in a podcast we did called Meaningful Mischief. I've invited them onto this podcast to talk about their lives and the pivotal moments that changed everything for them. So Dr. Nick and James Prince, good friends, share some of their stories, everything from slinky toys to roller coasters, to major family events, big moves, major career shifts, and all of that.

[00:00:27] Mary: And what's interesting to me that came through in this is that some of the qualities of who they are today and what they're doing and what they love. Were actually present in very, very, very early ages and, qualities that followed them through no matter where they were and what they did. So I hope you enjoy this conversation.

[00:00:43] Mary: They're two of my favorite people and enjoy.

[00:00:46] Mary: Welcome to and that changed everything. I'm your host, Mary Fearon, and this is a show where some of the world's most interesting and successful people unpack three pivotal moments that shaped who they are and how [00:01:00] they show up. I've been working with business leaders for decades, and it's clear, it's the stories, not the titles that shape us.

[00:01:06] Mary: These moments change how we lead, how we live, and what we make possible. I learned so much from each of these conversations, and I hope you do too. Let's jump in.

[00:01:16] Mary: Okay. Hey guys, let's start with telling me about a book that you, if you could only gift one book to friends, family, whoever in the world, what book would it be? You can only choose one Stel. You can't choose 10. Just so you know.

[00:01:35] James: You wanna go Stel.

[00:01:36] Stel: A book.

[00:01:37] Mary: A book.

[00:01:42] Stel: You know what, it's it. I think I want to give mine.

[00:01:48] Mary: You wanna give your book away?

[00:01:49] Stel: Yes.

[00:01:50] Mary: What a timely, um, its not even out in world yet.

[00:01:53] Stel: I was actually gonna say Think and Grow Rich.

[00:01:56] Mary: Okay.

[00:01:56] Stel: It just, it just hit me now because, uh, [00:02:00] well, you'll see later on it, it all makes sense actually,

[00:02:02] Mary: dude, I love this 'cause it's really connected

[00:02:04] Stel: in terms we're gonna be talking about.

[00:02:05] Stel: It's totally connected to what it is. How I met you guys, how important you're, and, and. Yeah, it's my story. So yeah, my book.

[00:02:13] Mary: Okay. So I love it. Which is not, people can't buy it quite yet. It's gonna launch sometime in the fall, right?

[00:02:19] Stel: Yeah.

[00:02:19] Mary: Okay. And then, so what's the name of the book?

[00:02:21] Stel: Soul Site.

[00:02:23] Mary: Soul Site,

[00:02:24] Stel: yeah.

[00:02:24] Mary: Oh, I love it. Okay. And I, I can I,

[00:02:28] James: you have to put a link.

[00:02:29] Mary: Yeah, we'll put, well, we will once, once we can, uh, once we can link people to buy it on Amazon or whatever Right when it launches. so we'll definitely, and, uh, I know you a little bit, so I have a feeling that, it's not surprising that the book you wanna give is the thing that you wanna give the world that you wanna, how you wanna impact and affect the world.

[00:02:49] Mary: So that's beautiful.

[00:02:50] Stel: Yeah. It's, um, uh, so much to say now. Yeah. Um, I'll save it. I'll save it. 'cause we're gonna be talking about [00:03:00] three moments. So one of them is in there and I'll, I'll bring it up again. The, um, it was something that was in the making for 10 years,

[00:03:08] Mary: right.

[00:03:08] Stel: And. Honestly, I, I didn't want to do it and I didn't know why.

[00:03:12] Stel: And even when I was writing it, I wanted to basically shut it down five times. It was one of the hardest things I've done. but the reason I would give it away is, uh, I open up with my story and I hope that it basically allows other people to open up with theirs. Mm-hmm. And be able to understand, uh, you know, we all have a story and it, it'll, it, it, there's lots of content in there to support people to discover the greatness.

[00:03:39] Stel: And I hope it influences other people that way. So, it's kind of weird to say it, but, uh,

[00:03:44] Mary: it's amazing. Congratulations. That's huge too.

[00:03:47] Stel: I have have a book.

[00:03:47] Mary: You're gonna have a book and you want the world to read it 'cause you wanna help the world.

[00:03:51] Stel: Yeah.

[00:03:51] Mary: That's awesome. Alright, James

[00:03:54] James: and I, I've read the, uh, I've read the, the preface to it and, um,

[00:03:57] Mary: have you

[00:03:59] James: Yeah, [00:04:00] yeah.

[00:04:00] James: With I,

[00:04:01] Mary: I feel left out gentlemen.

[00:04:03] James: Sorry, sorry, I think, I think you were out partying or something that night when? When he invited the two of us.

[00:04:10] Mary: Okay, perfect. I'm sure I was just busy. I'm sure he tried to call me, he texted me. We, I got a message on, on WhatsApp of, he sent a carrier pigeon with the book, and I just said, no, thank you.

[00:04:21] James: But, but it, it is, it is a, an incredibly moving, uh, I mean, knowing Stel, it'll be an incredible book and there's a lot of purpose and meaning behind it and impact and, and it will open a lot of people's eyes. I mean, I've worked with Stel on several things and with clients of mine and the thing, the work that he does with people is, is incredible.

[00:04:41] James: So I think, you know, when he says it'll be a great book, it will be a great book.

[00:04:47] Mary: That's amazing. Well, congratulations, Stel. I can't wait to read it. When the rest of the people get to read it and not before like James, but that's fine. I'm fine about it. I'm not, I, yeah, I'm not wounded at all. [00:05:00] Okay. James, how about you?

[00:05:03] James: For me, I think, and it, I think always books, depending on what's going on in your life at the time, you'll always give a different answer. Right. So, I'm in wealth management and, I think there's a great book written by Robin Sharma called The Wealth That Money Can't Buy. which is effectively everything other than making money is talking about relationships and which is what we connect on the three of us together.

[00:05:32] James: and it's such a good book. It's such a good book that, you know, the meaning and purpose of life and what we're trying to achieve and setting goals and, you know, time with the right people. It's, it's just a really good rounded book.

[00:05:44] Mary: That's cool. And so, question for you. 'cause I haven't read it, and this is the second time you've mentioned this book to me, so I definitely need to add it to my list.

[00:05:51] Mary: is it, is there anything about finance in there or is it really Yeah. Okay.

[00:05:55] James: Yeah. There is, there is, there is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:57] Mary: Okay.

[00:05:58] James: But, but it, it's, it's, I think it's [00:06:00] one, one of nine, I think it's nine chapters or nine sec sections within the book. Mm-hmm. Um, nine sections of wealth. Okay. one of them is, is about making investments.

[00:06:12] James: Um, but the other eight are about everything other than

[00:06:15] Mary: Okay.

[00:06:17] Mary: All right, well, thank you. Two books to add to my list, uh, this fall. I appreciate it. So everybody, I have my friends here. I'm calling this a crossover episode and I'm gonna date myself, but you know how they do that, where they have people from one TV show show up on another TV show, and I remember that with like Happy Days and Laverne and Shirley, and I feel like it would've happened with like 9 0 2 1 oh and Melrose Place and like those shows or like, I don't know, cheers.

[00:06:46] Mary: Like, do you guys have any examples? Anyway, so me and my buddies have a podcast called Meaningful Mischief. We're taking a hiatus. We don't know if it's indefinite or not. It's a pause because different things came up in our lives and our businesses that [00:07:00] we needed to focus on. And you know, we just had to redirect our episode.

[00:07:04] James: Oh, we've done 30

[00:07:05] James: episodes. It's not like we've just, right. We went in, we committed.

[00:07:09] Mary: We committed and we had so much fun talking about the things that the three of us connected, the three of us, like what we care about, living our best life, being the healthiest, most well-rounded, most giving people, and what did we, what have we learned along the way?

[00:07:23] Mary: So it was super fun. And so as we started this podcast, or I started this podcast and that, and that changed everything. I thought it'd be fun to have my friends on the episode to talk about the moments in their life that shaped who they are. And, uh, you know, for those of you who haven't dialed into meaningful mischief, you have 30 episodes to look forward to if you wanna go do that.

[00:07:44] Mary: Now, um, for those of you who haven't, my friend James Prince is a wealth manager who is from the uk but lives in Abu Dhabi. And James, you can tell us more about you if you, if you'd like. Sure. and then Friend Stel or Dr. [00:08:00] Nick is an optometrist by training, original training, but a, um, a supporter of all people who wanna connect to their vision and their purpose in life.

[00:08:11] Mary: And so he can do that for individuals, for teams, for families, et cetera. So I will call him the vision expert. Is that fair?

[00:08:21] Stel: Perfect. Love it.

[00:08:22] Mary: Right on. Right on, right on.

[00:08:24] Mary: So

[00:08:24] Mary: normally this podcast is only gonna have one, guest per episode, but in this case it's three of us. So what I thought we would do is just start with, and we know that, you know, in the work that I do and have been doing for many years, understanding what drives a business or a mission or an organization or whatever, is as much about understanding the people behind it as anything else.

[00:08:50] Mary: And so in order to get to the story of the meaning and purpose and mission behind an organization, you need to understand its leaders. And so, um, very quickly, the [00:09:00] conversations I have get very deep because we wanna understand what's the driving force, what's the fuel behind this thing you wanna do in the world, the impact that you wanna have.

[00:09:09] Mary: And, uh, one of the exercises we go through is about. breaking down those pivotal moments in your life. And we all have those moments. And what's been interesting for me in this journey is when we look back at those moments, we learn ourselves, we learn new things about ourselves by calling up those moments.

[00:09:27] Mary: 'cause our life is a mirror for what matters to us. But then when we share those moments as human beings with other human beings, we give opportunity for others to learn from it too. And there's moments of connection and all of that. So that's really the mission of all of this. so I've asked my friends to think about some moments in their life, and we go through three on the podcast.

[00:09:47] Mary: That doesn't mean there's probably, you know, many, many, many moments that matters matter in someone's life. And the ones that they pick today might not be the ones they pick three weeks from now. So, it's just, it's, it's to [00:10:00] stimulate a conversation about who they are and why it matters. So, let's start.

[00:10:04] Mary: Do you guys wanna say anything before we get started?

[00:10:08] James: Yeah. okay. Just, just one little thing, because I think you're right in what you just said, that the, the three topics that we discussed, and obviously this is why, firms would hire you as an expert to go in and break this down because I might have three.

[00:10:27] James: But then through our conversations, it might actually be that it's, it, that there's three different moments which actually have a more pivotal impact on, you know, me and the business and what we've created and the vision and the team. So I think that, I'm, look, I'm excited to, to go through this with you.

[00:10:44] James: I know Stel's worked with you as well directly and said that the work that you do and how you do it has a, has a massive impact. And how you can extract these events out and discuss them and reframe them, I think is really powerful. So yeah, excited to, [00:11:00] uh, to be here.

[00:11:02] Mary: Me too. Thank you for that. I can't wait to learn a little bit more about you, James.

[00:11:05] Mary: 'cause we haven't done this exercise. I know a little bit more about Stel's history. No. So this will be really fun. How about you still

[00:11:12] Stel: see I have done this exercise and already all these ideas are floating around in my head. Um, yeah. 'cause that's what you're really good at, Mary. And, um, yeah, just, I mean obviously it was a big part of, of what I wrote in the book too.

[00:11:26] Stel: Um mm-hmm. As you made it very clear how those pivotal moments impacted and how they connected. So I don't wanna say anymore. Um mm-hmm. I'm excited to be on this podcast with you, to share basically your unique ability. 'cause going through the on purpose process that you, you put me through with the three pivotal moments, has stayed with me to this day.

[00:11:50] Stel: So, right. And I'll, I'll share more of how it, it, it'll impact other people indirectly. Um,

[00:11:55] Mary: awesome.

[00:11:56] Stel: With regards to how I speak on stage or what I wrote in the book. [00:12:00] And, but thank you. This is amazing.

[00:12:02] Mary: Amazing. You know, Stel, so Stel's given me feedback over, you know, many, many, many months about this part of the process.

[00:12:10] Mary: And it's part of the process that we're in. It's not the entire process, but Stel has helped me appreciate how meaningful it is. And you probably Stel are one of the reasons that we are doing this podcast now, because as I was thinking about how do we, connect other people to the powerful stories of the human beings that are behind, you know, the impact that you know they're making in the world.

[00:12:33] Mary: The three moments are the thing. So I think, you know, thanks. Stel

[00:12:37] Stel: my pleasure. Oh,

[00:12:38] Mary: it's all, it's all due to you. Thank you. All right, so let's go back, let's go back in time. We're gonna start with one of the earliest moments. So each of you have thought of some moments in your life. You've got three to talk about today.

[00:12:49] Mary: Let's start with the earliest one. And because James, you haven't been, haven't done this before, why don't you take us back? Mm-hmm. And if there's any context you wanna provide about who you are and what you do in the world and all of [00:13:00] that, give us a little bit of background and then jump in.

[00:13:03] James: Okay. So, as you mentioned, I'm, uh, I live in Abu Dhabi.

[00:13:08] James: Uh, I have a wealth advisory firm that looks after families, high net worth individuals in terms of their wealth. looking at investments and advising on investments is kind of only part of what we do. It's more about the relationship and helping the, the, the families or the clients extract out their purpose and, and meaning and things like this.

[00:13:28] James: And that's why we, the three of us connect, you know, so greatly. but my first moment, thinking back of a, of a pivotal, pivotal moment was when I was around 12, 13 years of age. And I started, uh, playing golf and I was always average at school in terms of, you know, because I, I ended up being with the wrong schoolmates that were naughty and skipping class and these things.

[00:13:55] James: So I could have gone down a bit of a slippery slope with the, the, the group [00:14:00] that I was connected with. And I ended up, my parents, uh, fortunately used to do one new sporting activity or one new activity every Sunday in the summer. And we went golfing together, like just crazy golf pitch and put on a Sunday.

[00:14:15] James: Um, my sister, myself and my, my parents and uh, and I loved it. And then I realized that there was a golf course up the road from, was 10 minutes. And so I joined that when I was 13 and then that became a massive part of my life and, and my. We we're part of the same coaching group, which is how we met. So we know that how our characteristics and personality, like I, when I go all in, I go all in on something.

[00:14:39] Mary: Mm-hmm. Uh,

[00:14:40] James: I think it's similar, similar with, with the three of us. And, and so I doubled down on golf. I got, good very quickly. And I was fortunate enough then to play with businessmen and, adults. 'cause they want to, typically a, a golf club is, you get juniors and, and [00:15:00] people in different, sections of golfers.

[00:15:02] James: but then you get, it's, it's kind of like a rich sport. Back then it was anyway. Oh yeah. You know, the 30 odd years ago. and the rich guys wanted, 'cause I was the best junior in the club at the time. They all wanted to play with me. So then I used to, I picked up very quickly in terms of mirroring, you know, personalities, making them feel great, giving them, helping pick up their confidence and things like this.

[00:15:28] James: and in turn, I, I got to hang out with them. All the time. So I would, listening on business deals, finance, investments, how they would sell to each other, how to communicate with each other, how they would, uh, provoke each other.

[00:15:41] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:41] James: So

[00:15:42] James: me being a 13-year-old, hanging out, or 14-year-old, hanging out with successful, you know, 40, 50, 60-year-old guys, was a, was a big kind of part of, of my life.

[00:15:54] James: And, and then what golf did, I tried to make it as a golfer when I kind of got to [00:16:00] 17, 18, 19, I wasn't quite good enough to make it on the tour. I, I, I could've done, but I wouldn't have made, I wouldn't have made much money. It, I would've been just going in at the very entry and so through golf and the people that I was networking with.

[00:16:15] James: Um, and then I think this is also a, a key thing is, is the people that you hang around with in relationships and people either you've got battery drainers and battery chargers, and had a couple of people which had, for me, and I helped them a lot with golf, and one was a partner of a law firm. And when I said to him, I was playing golf with him one day and, and he said, look, you're not gonna go, you're not gonna do golf.

[00:16:36] James: What, what are you gonna do? And I said, I actually don't know because I've poured everything into this for kind of six, seven years. and I'm not sure, you know, whether or not, 'cause I did okay my exams, 'cause I was focusing so much on golf. And he said, look, we really like you as a person. I like the way that you conduct yourselves and, and yourself and how hard you've worked at golf.

[00:16:56] James: If you apply yourself in the same way, uh, with law, [00:17:00] you'll be a successful lawyer. he says, if you want, you can start on Monday. And this was like a Thursday night.

[00:17:06] Mary: No.

[00:17:07] James: And I was like,

[00:17:09] James: um, but it required a huge amount of hard work. 'cause he said, look, you're coming in into a, into one of the best law firms in our area at the time.

[00:17:18] James: but you don't have a law degree. So what I need you to do is I need you to enroll immediately within a law law degree. You need to do in the evenings and weekends. It's gonna take you six years.

[00:17:28] Mary: Oh my God.

[00:17:28] James: Doing it

[00:17:29] James: twice a week and two weekends every month. But if you want it, it's there. It's, it's for you to succeed or for you to fail.

[00:17:37] James: And um, that was the first, you know, go talking just about golf and how that started. Yeah. And elevated me up. And then opening things up with law was the, for me, the kind of first pivotal moment in, I guess my career and, and learning around, yeah. People and communication and, you know, how to mirror people and, and get people to do the things that you, [00:18:00] that you want in a certain way.

[00:18:01] James: How to build trust and that was a, a big element. And then I ended up becoming a, a successful, criminal defense lawyer. I was, I was well liked and had a lot of people that would come in and ask for me personally to represent them. And that was a another element of, you know, look helping people.

[00:18:21] James: Mm-hmm. Communicating with them, making complicated things simple so that, you know, people could, you could help people find a result. And, and that, and that was, that was it. That was kind of where that my friend, that was first kind of part of my, part of my kind of career.

[00:18:35] Mary: So there's like 14 stories inside that one story about what you say is just golf, right?

[00:18:41] Mary: So first of all, mm-hmm. Like, go back. So I know I'm, my parents, my kids just went off to university, so thank goodness. But there was a moment in grade seven or eight where there was a choice for my son. Does he stay playing hockey, doing the thing with the kids and sports and da da da. Or there's a contingent that's just like out at the park doing God [00:19:00] knows what, not really engaged in sport, whatever.

[00:19:02] Mary: So it sounds like there was that key turning point for you too. Like you either had to go all in or not. So, and then. You had these amazing parents who did some new activity every weekend, like, that's incredible, right? Like, that's like, yeah. That would expose you to something that you could go, oh, you know, and, and then go all in on.

[00:19:21] Mary: So I have a question about that. So my son is super into golf now, and it is still a rich person sport because he's a starving student and he is spending all of his summer money golfing. So it's not, it's still, yeah, it's not exactly like kicking a soccer ball around a field. but so tell me, when you played golf, like what bit you, because you say when you go in, you go all in, but what was it about golf that got you, that kind of triggered interest?

[00:19:46] James: So this is why you're great, Mary. That's a good question. Yeah. I, I think for me it was about the success. It was about, I picked up really [00:20:00] quickly.

[00:20:01] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:01] James: And. Knowing that I was achieving quicker than other people. And I thought that I, you know, I have, I have some talent around golf and I can mm-hmm. You know, grow quickly and, and, and, excel at a quicker rate than the rest of people and succeeding and having other people around going, oh great, you're great.

[00:20:21] James: And these things in a short period of time. That I think was what was driving me.

[00:20:25] Mary: Okay. So you saw a little taste of success and then you were chasing that.

[00:20:30] James: Yeah.

[00:20:30] Mary: Okay.

[00:20:31] James: Yeah.

[00:20:31] Mary: Next question. Were you in any way strategic at this point in time, or were you really just chasing, I'm gonna be at golf, like, good at golf?

[00:20:39] Mary: Like, 'cause if you look back and it's easy for people to look back at their life and go, oh, well of course I made this decision and then I was in the proximity of really successful people. And then, and you could look back and, and kind of pretend it was all planned, or did you literally just fall into the [00:21:00] next benefit from it and followed it?

[00:21:04] James: another really good question and think, and thinking about it now, what you made me think is because zero strategy, right? Just, just pure, you know, dive in and let's see what happens. And if I'm being honest, that's what has happened all the way through.

[00:21:18] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:18] James: Up until today, you know, there's probably a little bit more strategy now, a little bit more thought as I'm older and kids and you more responsibility and you kind of have to

[00:21:28] Mary: Yeah.

[00:21:28] James: But, but definitely back then, and for the first, you know, 10 years or 15 years or so was just opportunity. Let's just jump in and, and try and make it work and give it my all and what, what happens happens.

[00:21:41] Mary: That's amazing. So then the next thing is how you say, and so then I just started being able to mirror people and support them and make them feel good.

[00:21:51] Mary: And then so, so, you know, I, I just said the thing about strategy and maybe it wasn't intentional, but what, and then you say, okay. And I look back at my life and [00:22:00] it's all kind of been that way. But typically that's because you're following something that you're really good at. Like your natural way with people is to make them feel good, to feel open, to feel like comfortable around you to support their success.

[00:22:16] Mary: Like to me that's like, and knowing you the way that I do, it's very who you are showing up in the context of the proximity. Like so yes, you're good at golf, that's amazing. And then you're around these, you know, successful people who, who then believe in you and give you a shot. But your way of supporting people is something that is also consistent and so not strategic 'cause it just is who you are, but that's what seems to have been following you along the way.

[00:22:47] James: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. And, and I think that was my first kind of taste of me showing up and being able to, um, lift people. It wasn't really adding value, it was more uplifting them with golf [00:23:00] and, and, 'cause I know that it would make them feel good and in turn they would wanna play with me, which meant that I would learn and grow and then I could help them and teach 'em a bit with golf.

[00:23:09] James: 'cause at school I never had that with friends. I wasn't, you know, just the group that I was involved with. And so, stepping away and, and feeding from that, you know, me doubling down and playing golf that I could get, you know, play with better players.

[00:23:23] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:24] James: And then

[00:23:24] James: just learn and develop and grow and, um, yeah.

[00:23:28] Mary: Yeah. So how does it feel like, can you go back to a moment when you were like to a person or a moment when you were helping, I'm gonna say pump someone's tires or making them feel better, making them feel whatever. Can you go back to one of those moments, early days? Because like when you said you were 13 or 14 and you're hanging out with these successful people and like to me it's just amazing that you would have the wisdom.

[00:23:53] Mary: Insight to support them and make them feel better. So I wanna know what that felt like for you. [00:24:00]

[00:24:01] James: I mean, there, there was be conscious of time here 'cause I, I could talk, talk about this because it was, was a big part of my life. But, but, and still knows the story. But, I got, uh, invited to go to Barbados when I was 17 because I'd won some tournaments and I was in the newspaper and magazines and things, and they invited me to go and work at this golf club in Barbados.

[00:24:22] James: And the, the, the deal was, was it was all paid for, but I just needed to work on the driving range in the morning from six until 12. Mm-hmm. And then all of the food accommodation facilities and everything was all covered. So I, I get there and like I'm in day three and there's, I'm going from. The golf course on one of the golf course bug on the, on the work working buggies down to the driving range.

[00:24:50] James: And I've finished the shift and my golf clubs are on the back, and I'm gonna go and practice. And as I'm driving across the bridge, my golf clubs come out to get snapped in the bridge. And [00:25:00] I'm, and I'm supposed to be there for six, seven months playing every day to work on my game to get ready for the season.

[00:25:04] James: And day three in my golf clubs snapped in the bridge.

[00:25:09] Mary: Oh my.

[00:25:09] James: And like,

[00:25:09] James: holy crap. And these are all customized for me. You know, you can't just go and get these for sharpen things on. How does that even happen? I was going across a wooden bridge, and as I'm shaking on the buggie, the clubs were laid horizontally across the back and the back is shaking and it comes out out and it's all railings and it gets trapped in.

[00:25:26] James: And it nearly pulled me off over the bridge into the lake.

[00:25:30] Mary: No. Okay.

[00:25:32] James: and so obviously, you know, devastated, um, couldn't believe what happened next day. Turned up to work and. The guy says, look, it was one of the hotel guests, 'cause this was at Sandy Lane Golf Club, super affluent, probably one of the most expensive hotels in the world at the time.

[00:25:49] James: And they said, look, there's a hotel guest down in the driving range. And I've already got my head in my hands feeling sorry for myself as a teenager going, you know, why, why me? He says, go down to the driving range and uh, look after this [00:26:00] guest. So I go down there. And I start, you know, I need to get my game face on 'cause I can't go down there feeling sorry for myself.

[00:26:08] James: And he's asking me, you know, can you gimme some tips? Your English, how long are you here for? Blah, blah, blah. And we end up talking and I'm giving him some tips and helping him with his game. and obviously, you know, when they hit a shot and it's not quite right and you can tell, you know, you make making little subtle comments to uplift him because he could have gone into, oh, this is crap.

[00:26:28] James: But saying, look, it was nearly quite right. You know, just a little bit of this and it would be even, but you could subtle things that can make him feel great. And he says, look, I I I like hanging out with you. What are you doing tomorrow? Uh, let's go and play golf. And I explained to him what had happened and I said, I would love to, but I don't have my clubs and this has happened.

[00:26:45] James: And he said, no problem. And he gets his phone out and hands me and he says, one second. And he calls and gives me the phone. And, uh, he says. I talked to this guy 'cause he went off and come back like four or five seconds later and the guy says, what clubs did you [00:27:00] have? And I told him what clubs I had and he asked me specific details 'cause they were customized.

[00:27:05] James: That would take me three months for the clubs to come when I ordered them back then. And could. Long story short, tomorrow, the next day, 6:00 AM in the morning, they called me and said, there's a UPS delivery for you.

[00:27:16] Mary: Holy shit.

[00:27:17] James: And he'd called somebody at the factory to get them, like, must have pulled in so many favors to get them from America to Barbados the next morning.

[00:27:26] Mary: Wow.

[00:27:26] James: So he must

[00:27:26] James: have called that afternoon, got them custom, made somebody's custom and then shipped across. And then he called me from the hotel and said, did the package arrive? And I said, yeah. He said, now we're gonna go and play golf.

[00:27:37] Mary: Wow.

[00:27:37] James: And, and he, he did that so I could play golf with him. And, and so, we played golf every day for probably a month.

[00:27:45] James: 'cause he stayed at the hotel for a month.

[00:27:47] Mary: Wow.

[00:27:47] James: Um, and, um. That for me was like a really special moment where just by me going down what I could have felt really crappy. But you know, trying to show up and do something nice [00:28:00] and, and being subtle and trying to uplift somebody in that kind of conversational mirroring phase turned out to be a very special moment.

[00:28:08] Mary: So that's incredible. because you didn't do it because you were thinking, oh, maybe I'll get something out of this, and you were

[00:28:15] James: No, no, not at all.

[00:28:16] Mary: Yeah. And you were coming out of the dumps like you had a choice to make. Do I just like slunk around and be like a, you know, a disgruntled teenager, poor me, or do I go all in and do the job I'm meant to do and then you didn't have to be super nice.

[00:28:30] Mary: I hear stories. I don't really like golfing. We should talk about that someday. but I hear stories about golfing where people are like always giving each other advice and it's obnoxious and annoying. So you do it in a way that makes somebody feel uplifted and supported, which is a very special quality.

[00:28:46] Mary: And I would offer up that that's what you still do today. With people no matter where you're

[00:28:50] James: Yeah.

[00:28:51] James: And it's knowing, or trying to know when to say something, when it's wanted and when it's not wanted. Because yeah, some people don't, don't want advice [00:29:00] at all and you're just gonna damage a relationship, so, yeah.

[00:29:03] James: Mm.

[00:29:03] Mary: Does that trans, does that translate into your personal relationships, knowing when to give a wife and when to not,

[00:29:10] James: uh, I dunno if you asked my wife, no, no, definitely not. I get it wrong every day. Um, but it's something that I try to do with the investment piece and, and with clients. Yeah.

[00:29:23] James: Yeah,

[00:29:24] Mary: yeah. So that's like something that you can't really make up that, that is just who you are.

[00:29:29] Mary: I mean, here you are showing up at 17 doing that. It's who you are in, you know, even you talked about even in your criminal defense, role, your lawyer role that people requested. 'cause you made people feel good. I mean, that's. That's kind of an awful moment that people would be really important to feel good and supported and all of that.

[00:29:48] Mary: So, can I ask you just final question then we'll bump over to Stel's next? Sure. Sure. First moment. But, if you had to say the one [00:30:00] thing that, that you got from golf, if you had to say like mm-hmm. What's the one quality about me that I got from deciding to play golf when I was 13, 14? What would be that quality be like in your head?

[00:30:12] Mary: Like, what would you say?

[00:30:14] James: The first thing that comes to mind is discipline.

[00:30:17] James: Okay.

[00:30:18] James: Because if I didn't have the, I think hard work in discipline mm-hmm. I wouldn't have, I wouldn't be the person I am today and I needed to really double down for, for that to happen, so. Mm-hmm. Um, whether or not it was the passion for the golf that drove the discipline, I don't know.

[00:30:35] James: And that could be another conversation, but that's what comes to mind.

[00:30:39] Mary: Yeah. You know, it's interesting to me for sure. I mean, 'cause you can't get as good as you got without it. So discipline totally makes sense to me. But that softer quality that you may not have named, which is given the opportunity to support people and then also really powerful people, really people of status, people who are older, people who are like, there's a huge [00:31:00] intimidation factor there.

[00:31:00] Mary: So it gave you the time to develop that skillset so that when you are a criminal defense attorney or working with high net worth individuals that like, it, it, it was like the building blocks for that piece of who you are that makes people wanna be around you in the first place, let alone do the work that you do and do it well.

[00:31:21] Mary: So

[00:31:23] James: that's pretty cool. Yeah, no, it's, it's interesting. But, but good insight. Thank you.

[00:31:27] Mary: Yeah. This is so fun. Okay. Stel.

[00:31:31] Mary: First of all,

[00:31:32]

[00:31:32] Mary: Do you have anything to say? 'cause I know you, you've been so quiet.

[00:31:36] Stel: No, it's fun to watch. I mean, it's, yeah, Mary, your questioning is amazing. You took me right back to when you were questioning, throwing the questions at me.

[00:31:45] Stel: and, and thanks man. The way, the way that you connect, deeper meaningful awareness is in a situation that you just think is a moment is, is incredible. And then knowing, uh, James' story and watching [00:32:00] how you just unfolded, it was just amazing to watch. And, um, that actually put depth in even my insights in terms of, of, um, going through it a second time while you're asking the questions to James.

[00:32:13] Stel: So,

[00:32:14] Mary: yeah, it's amazing this be fun. It's,

[00:32:15] Stel: it's amazing.

[00:32:17] Mary: Thank you, man. I, um, I find nothing more interesting than understanding people. And so I'm always mining for the meaning behind the stories. And it's so fun to shine a light on it. Like as you, as you shared that story, like we could talk about that for another two hours probably,

[00:32:34] Mary: you know,

[00:32:35] Mary: but who has two hours?

[00:32:36] James: Yeah. '

[00:32:36] James: cause it's just, just, just skimming, skimming over the uh, yeah.

[00:32:39] Mary: Yeah. That was just one slice of your life that shaped who you are. Right. That's really cool. So thank you for sharing that. All right, Stel, what's, what's your earliest pivotal moment?

[00:32:52] Stel: The one that came up was, uh, was the first time I had to go to the [00:33:00] optometrist.

[00:33:01] Stel: And um,

[00:33:02] Mary: how old were you?

[00:33:03] Stel: I was nine. Okay. I was nine years old. I was obviously squinting in class, so the teacher said, you know, you, you need to go see the, the eye doctor. It was devastating for me 'cause glasses back then were not the coolest thing in the world. Um, and I was the only one in my family that needed to see an eye doctor.

[00:33:22] Stel: Okay. Um. But one of the things that my optometrist did back then, he kept me interested in all the testing that he was doing and, uh, very, very social and asked a lot of questions and very engaging. And, uh, I thought he was the coolest thing ever. Right. He was making me do these 3D tests and, you know, I was pinching the flies, you know, the wings of the fly in, in this one test.

[00:33:45] Stel: It was just really, really, uh, interesting. But as you were asking the questions to James, I know the whole golf conversation came up. one of the things that also, linked me was, uh, sports.

[00:33:58] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:59] Stel: I [00:34:00] was a natural athlete in every sport. And then, uh, as James was sort of playing out his story mm-hmm.

[00:34:10] Stel: You know, obviously the vision piece and where I am now directly linked to me. Needing the glasses and then getting into optometry. But the sports piece is actually what the coaching and the leadership came from. 'cause that was pretty well captain of every team. and, and just again, as you were speaking to James, I saw the two coming together in terms of what I do, not only in terms of vision, but also leadership and coaching the visual process and helping people, you know, change their lives through, through through the vision.

[00:34:44] Stel: Through vision. Okay.

[00:34:45] Mary: So can we back up?

[00:34:46] Stel: Yeah.

[00:34:47] Mary: Yeah. Okay. 'cause you now have two moments that are like converging for you, which I think is super cool. when it came to, so you didn't wanna go to the optometrist 'cause you're like, this is gonna suck. I'm gonna have glasses, people are gonna make fun of me.

[00:34:58] Mary: Like the whole thing that kids do. [00:35:00] I totally appreciate that. And then you go and you see that it's a super cool thing. And I think you told me once that like you knew fairly early that that's the career path you wanted. Is that because of that moment with that? with that optometrist who made you realize how cool it was to understand the eyes, was it like, and was it as deep as I wanna like to be able to understand how eyes work?

[00:35:21] Mary: Or was it because he was helping you?

[00:35:23] Stel: Yeah, so it was grade 10 when people started asking you, what do you want to do when you get older? What do you want to be when you get older? I had no clue until finally it hit me and I thought, I knew I wanted to help people that wasn't, uh mm-hmm. A question. And then I loved sports, so I thought it was gonna be sports medicine or some type of

[00:35:41] Mary: mm-hmm.

[00:35:42] Stel: Of, um, you know, coaching, but I mean in terms of, of sport. And then I thought, man, this guy was very social in a, in a, in a room talking to me the whole time. And, uh, making it interesting and absolutely it was impactful that I thought, you know what? [00:36:00] I'm gonna be an optometrist. It's a perfect fit for, for me at every level.

[00:36:03] Stel: Right?

[00:36:03] Mary: Yeah. Right. You know, it's so funny 'cause we'll pivot to this later, but like the, the optometry to. The, you know, the broadest definition of vision ever. But I'm not ready to go there yet. 'cause I wanna talk about, sports. So it's not uncommon to hear very successful people talk about their very successful sports lives because driven performers wanna be good at something.

[00:36:30] Mary: You know, that quality shows up in other places, right? Mm-hmm. But then I've heard you say a few times about this. I, I was the captain of many teams, and you kind of just slough it off. You're like, oh, you know, and so I was captain of all my teams and I was really good at sports and da da da. S but hold the phone.

[00:36:45] Mary: Like, you don't just become captain of teams because you're good at sports and it doesn't just sort of happen. So I wanna like slow down for a moment and, and look at that because what is it, and let's go back to the first team you were captain of and it, [00:37:00] it could even be like, you know, intramural volleyball when you were in grade five.

[00:37:04] Mary: I don't care. But what's the moment where people are like, it should be still? And is it an adult choosing or is it your teammate's choosing like, I want, I want more.

[00:37:13] Stel: No, it's, it's definitely the coach is the one that that chooses. Mm-hmm. And it's interesting because I see my oldest son, Tom, is going through exactly what I went through, uh, back then.

[00:37:25] Stel: And one of the things that he's really, really good at is being all inclusive and making sure that the whole team is engaged and also inspiring. So a lot of the things, well, James, you mentioned it in terms of saying things a certain way that inspires someone else. But you're basically saying, here's some changes that you can make without saying you idiot.

[00:37:43] Stel: Mm-hmm. You need to do type of thing. Mm-hmm. Um, and one of the things that I've always had, I always see the potential in people and I'm really positive. Right? So having those two traits plus understanding and allowing everybody to be all inclusive is, uh, was always important to me. [00:38:00] yeah.

[00:38:01] Mary: Can we talk

[00:38:02] Mary: about that for a sec?

[00:38:03] Stel: Yeah.

[00:38:04] Mary: Why is that so I, now, maybe it's not sports related, but where do you think that comes from, that, that desire?

[00:38:09] Stel: Well, it's

[00:38:10] Stel: funny, so I can tell you the exact time. Yeah. Showed up, not even realizing that it was showing up, and then knowing my story now with my, you know, other son that's in a wheelchair with cerebral palsy.

[00:38:21] Stel: it was grade one, I think kindergarten. It was a very young age. We were in Montreal at the time. That's where I was born and brought up. And, um, we had, uh, a, a, a classmate that was in a wheelchair at the time, Gregory, I still remember his name. Uh, I don't remember exactly what we were doing, but we were hacking around and then the wheelchair fell over and it was in the class and the teacher got so mad and, basically told there was three of us.

[00:38:48] Stel: Right. Greg was, was obviously, fell over in the wheelchair and then I went to go pick him up and she wouldn't let me. And she said he needs to learn his lesson. You two need to go to your recess [00:39:00] now. Gosh. And I knew there was a part of me that needed, are you joking? I'm not joking. I mean, it's pretty ingrained in my head and, there's a part of me that wanted to stay and, and basically said there's no way I'm gonna leave.

[00:39:11] Stel: But because authority said I needed to leave, I left. And, um, you know, when we came back, obviously the wheelchair was upright, but that stayed with me for obviously until now.

[00:39:22] Mary: So like

[00:39:22] Mary: playing with other kids, number one is good, like a kid's, a kid in a wheelchair and and the other kids you're all playing something and yeah, then something, it's an accident but like, are we gonna then single out the kid in the wheelchair and

[00:39:32] Stel: no she didn't and

[00:39:33] Mary: humiliate it.

[00:39:34] Mary: You that is definitely school age of the, like that is a, I'm gonna just go out and say that's a Gen X. I dunno if it was in seventies or whatever, but it was Yeah, that was, uh, yeah, the teachers, that's pretty terrible. I bet Gregory tells this story and it has a whole different impact on,

[00:39:53] Stel: wow. Gregory passed away many years, like, uh, afterwards and it was one of the things that stuck with me.

[00:39:59] Stel: But it's interesting [00:40:00] how. You know, watching my story unfold and where I am today and what got shaped with those, those times, right? Mm-hmm. And then my whole thing was on like making sure that there's inclusivity. How do we get Gregory to play with us? What is it that we need to do? But that's sort of the leadership skills that came at a very, very young age.

[00:40:16] Stel: So by the time I went onto sports teams, and it was highly competitive mm-hmm. Um, then it didn't matter, you know, who it was. But I would always see the person with the, the least amount of capabilities and know what to say and how to say it in order for everybody to get driven up by it and not just focus on the best players and, and, uh.

[00:40:39] Stel: It's a team. I don't, it's the best way I can explain

[00:40:41] Mary: it. I know. I find this so interesting because on one hand, competition is, in order for me to win, someone has to lose. And I know from competitive sports with my own kids, I was never in competitive sports. We moved around too much. That's what I say. I probably just wasn't coordinated enough or whatever.

[00:40:55] Mary: But I know from watching my kids go through, through it,

[00:40:59] James: we [00:41:00] should delve

[00:41:00] James: into that at some point. Mary.

[00:41:02] Mary: Yeah, I know.

[00:41:02] Mary: We'll do an episode where you guys ask me my question, my three. Yeah,

[00:41:06] James: yeah, yeah. Tell me about that. Yeah.

[00:41:08] Mary: Yeah. There's definitely some baggage there. but with competitive sports, in order for me to win, someone else else has to lose.

[00:41:15] Mary: And it's not just the other team. In order for me to make the team, other kids have to not make the team and in order for me to play first string or whatever it is, Then other kids have to do worse than me. And so in a way like this totally driven, I'm going to, you know, achieve, achieve, achieve, achieve.

[00:41:34] Mary: Is it cross purposes with I wanna lift everyone else up. And so I'm curious for you, how did that play out? Because on some level there's self-interest and then there's team interest. It would be pretty wise and insightful to say we don't do well unless the whole team does well. But like, you know, the, the 9, 10, 11, 12-year-old boy in you was doing that.

[00:41:58] Stel: Yeah. No, it's, it's, [00:42:00] you're bringing me to what I do now. But I mean, my whole thing is the competition that's always happened was within, within myself, I was naturally talented, so it was easy for me to lead.

[00:42:10] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:11] Stel: Um, but I never looked back. It was always where can I go? How do I get better? And then lead by example to allow other people that are ready to get better as well.

[00:42:18] Stel: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:19] Stel: But knowing

[00:42:19] Stel: what I know now, the best athletes. And the best artists. Mm-hmm. And the best creatives typically, uh, had some type of disability as a kid.

[00:42:34] Mary: Mm.

[00:42:35] Stel: And I think what I pick up on is a layer deeper than the athlete itself, and I get right into the person. And then once you build the person and see them for who they are, then the inner and outer connect, which then makes them better at what and, and, uh Right.

[00:42:52] Stel: Makes it better as well. but yeah. I don't know if I answered your question, but I've always, don't get me wrong, if you piss me [00:43:00] off, or if it is the other team, that competitive nature of me comes up. Yeah. And I will win.

[00:43:06] Mary: It would have to be,

[00:43:06] Stel: yeah. It's, it's, there's no question. And again, when it's, it's my team and the game is on, there's no building up, we're winning.

[00:43:14] Stel: Mm-hmm. I mean, now the, the, the game is actually happening. Mm-hmm.

[00:43:18] Mary: But, um,

[00:43:19] Stel: yeah.

[00:43:20] Mary: Oh, that's fascinating to me because I, I think it would require a, a sense of, um hmm. Confidence, inner security or something that you're not looking at others' success as a reflection on your lack of success or whatever. Like, that's pretty, that's pretty evolved thinking, but I also believe that, you know, one of the things, our greatest fear is a fear of rejection.

[00:43:47] Mary: And so maybe, you know, you had these skills to reach into other people's souls and make them feel good. I mean, you're basically guaranteeing, teeing, community [00:44:00] around you that way, right? Yeah. Because like, you're, you're, if you can reach people that way, then you then therefore have community around you.

[00:44:07] Mary: You will never be deserted. And it's funny enough, just going back to James' comments about, um, learning how to mirror and support and all of that. If we go, if we think about what, you know, what humans need, we need community and connection. And so you're, you guys are both finding the tools, acknowledgement the tools you have acknowledgement, acknowledgement you need, like we need that to survive.

[00:44:31] Mary: And so you're, you found the tools and you know, in my own life, my version of that would be you, you said everybody has a disability or whatever. I think all of us have something that makes us feel, other than for me, I moved so many times, I was literally like the outsider. Like I, I, you know, put me in the middle of a school.

[00:44:51] Mary: Good luck, Mary. Go find friends to eat lunch with, fit in, in a totally different state, different city, different country, all that stuff. So my version of that is to [00:45:00] be alone and be the outsider looking in. You guys had your own versions of how to, of what that looked like and how to survive. Like for, for James it was the surviving in like, first of all, being really good at something.

[00:45:13] Mary: So you're, you're playing kind of punching above your weight, maybe socioeconomically and, and you know, age-wise too, you're 13, 14 really good at something and you're playing golf with people who have achieved much and are, I don't know, much older than you, right? Yeah. And so how did you, what tools could you find to help you go be successful in that environment?

[00:45:33] Mary: And for Stel, you are good at the, you know, physically talented in sports, but connecting with other people and creating a community around you, you figured out that it was tapping into the thing that really drove people and, and supported them that way. And all of a sudden you have a team around you and people supporting you and coaches are saying, you get to be the captain.

[00:45:57] Mary: We need you. You support people. A lot of the times the [00:46:00] captain's just the best player, right? Like in the song shouldn't be that way, but sometimes like that is the case. They choose the one who's like, yeah. Um, funny I'm watching, um, there's a documentary about the Dallas Cowboys.

[00:46:14] Stel: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:15] Mary: I think it's called America's Team.

[00:46:18] Mary: And Troy Aikman is the I've not seen quarterback. Oh yeah, it's out now. Troy Aikman's the quarterback. Okay. Uh, they're, they're going through that whole time of Troy Aikman being, and, and then them winning a few Super Bowls and kind of in a row. But, that Troy Aikman's kind of a quiet guy, but he's the quarterback, but he's not necessarily the emotional, spiritual leader of the team that he maybe needed to be.

[00:46:39] Mary: Anyway, I digress. Okay. This is so fun. let's pivot. Second moment. We can do these faster. James.

[00:46:51] James: I think for me, moving to Abu Dhabi was, was a key moment. Yeah. Um. When was that quitting law? So that was, [00:47:00] uh, I was 28, so I started in the law firm when I was 19, and I moved when I was 20, 27. So eight years later.

[00:47:08] James: um,

[00:47:08] Mary: you've been there

[00:47:09] Mary: for a while now, eh?

[00:47:11] James: Yeah, I've been 15 years now. Yeah.

[00:47:13] Mary: Wow. Okay.

[00:47:14] James: So, uh, 2010. 10 moved here. Um,

[00:47:18] Mary: so there's

[00:47:19] Mary: a lot of people who'd be listening to this podcast would be like, what the hell? Why, why go there? What's like, break it down for us?

[00:47:27] James: I mean, moving here was, was I, I needed to move out of law.

[00:47:33] James: I think I was, I was looking after the criminals and really trying to help, not having much of an impact. You know, you, you would, you would help somebody not get separate conversation, but get off a crime. I mean, you know, not use chop criminals, get off somebody that,

[00:47:47] Mary: of course you only represented

[00:47:48] Mary: innocent people, of course.

[00:47:51] James: No. But then you see him back in the, in the judicial system, you know, a week, two weeks later and it's like, all my effort has just gone to waste. And it got, after kind of eight years of doing [00:48:00] that, a bit mundane and, and weighed me down. And I was always doing investments personally on the side. Things I picked up from.

[00:48:08] James: Business owners that I was playing golf with, you know, they would turn up with nice cars. 'cause criminal law pays, pays really crap.

[00:48:14] Mary: I was gonna say, yeah,

[00:48:14] James: it's one of

[00:48:15] James: the worst, worst laws that you can go into. Exciting, but what, you know, not, not great financially. And so I was envious of the guys I was playing golf with when I was growing up, and the people that were traveling and staying nice hotels and things.

[00:48:26] James: And, and so I knew, I picked up things that they were doing in terms of business and investments and property. Started to go into that with the money that I was making as a lawyer and any, any savings that I had and was doing quite well with it, and was helping friends and people around and family with investments and thought, you know what I, this is, this is my next career move.

[00:48:47] James: Mm-hmm. I'm gonna go, my best friend moved out to Abu Dhabi a year before me. I went to visit him a couple of times, fell in love with Abu Dhabi and just thought, okay, these are the two things I need to do. I need to do, become an [00:49:00] investment advisor and move to Abu Dhabi. And did, did dived in really deep, passed the load of exams, and then, then moved out and started the journey.

[00:49:10] James: Um,

[00:49:11] Mary: did you have to

[00:49:11] Mary: do the exams in Abu Dhabi? Like do you have to?

[00:49:13] James: A bit of both different.

[00:49:14] Mary: Okay.

[00:49:15] James: A bit of both. I did in UK to be able to get me into the firm, but then I did a lot more when I started with the firm.

[00:49:22] Mary: What is it about Abu Dhabi you fell in love with? I've never been there, so,

[00:49:27] James: um, you and you need to come.

[00:49:28] James: We keep saying sales been over a few times. I, I was having this conversation with somebody today, and I think this probably sums it up aside from the obvious, which in the UA e now is around safety and education and healthcare and the weather. It's the people. And it's the positivity of the, everybody's sacrificed something of it's eight 85% expats and 15% local families.[00:50:00]

[00:50:00] Mary: Okay?

[00:50:00] James: National

[00:50:00] James: families. So 85% of the people that are here have sacrificed left families, left things behind, left jobs behind, so something better.

[00:50:09] Mary: Mm.

[00:50:09] James: And taking a

[00:50:09] James: risk. And the conversations that you have with people here, it's all about future value, future opportunity, future relationships, seeing the glasses, you know, what can we do to work together to achieve a better life for, for me, or a better business or better family safety for the kids, you know, greater opportunities.

[00:50:31] James: And

[00:50:31] Mary: that's really nice to be around kinda of the American dream.

[00:50:34] Mary: It's like the colonizing America, all the people leaving England to come over for, you know, the land of opportunity. Same idea.

[00:50:44] James: And, and that was, that was kind of the, the, the reason behind, you know, diving in deep and

[00:50:50] Mary: mm-hmm.

[00:50:51] James: Not, not that I picked that up within a few trips of visiting, uh, but it become apparent and that's why 15 years here now, married family, kids business [00:51:00] here.

[00:51:00] James: So, you know, deep, I mean, this is home.

[00:51:02] Mary: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, who are you now? Because you've made those decisions. So you were this person who wasn't making as much money as he wanted to in criminal defense. You're like, I need to make a change. I'm gonna go to this place. 'cause your friend was there. So it's easy.

[00:51:19] Mary: Like, I, that happens to me. Like, I watch movies of certain places and I'm like, I wanna go live there. Wanna go visit a place. Mm-hmm. I'm like, let's move here. Like, so I know, I know that feeling, but, had you not done that, you'd be a different person. So who are you today? Because you've, you made that decision.

[00:51:40] James: Who, who am I is a difficult question to, I think you would always answer. the people that I serve is an easier one because now I'm aligned with clients. You know, I feel like I can, I can make a, a, a bit larger impact on clients and families that we're working with and, and changing the lives of them and guiding, supporting, [00:52:00] coaching them, mentoring in some, in some aspects.

[00:52:03] James: Mm-hmm. So I'm right where I feel I should be.

[00:52:06] Mary: Mm-hmm. Um,

[00:52:07] James: it's been a tough journey over the 15 year period. I think everybody's got a story and, and challenges that they've had along the way. but I, I'm doing exactly what I believe I was born to do, which is to give support, serve, and. I'm, I'm loving it.

[00:52:31] James: I'm loving. Yeah. You know, every minute of it. And, and new challenges and, uh, new team members that we're hiring, supporting, bringing people in which are in line with the values of the company and me, and what we're trying to do and the, the clients that we're trying to serve.

[00:52:47] Mary: That's awesome. Do you wanna talk about the types of clients you have, like the

[00:52:52] James: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's generally aspirational.

[00:52:56] James: 'cause for me it's always about being around people that are positive and they want their future to be, to be bigger [00:53:00] than their present. So it's about, you know, aspirational conversations. Um, that's a relationship. It's not a transaction just by the nature of the way that we do business. It's generally high net worth individuals and families that are here.

[00:53:14] James: Mm-hmm. Um, that need support in many ways. I mean, for, for, for me, and, and you both know this as well, for the conversations that we've had and the time that we've spent getting to know each other. But for me it's about deep, meaningful. Connections where I feel I can help them in many different areas and, and finance and investment is only a part of what I do.

[00:53:36] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:37] James: Um, it's probably 10% of what I do. The 90% is, is everything other than the finance and investments and me trying to find ways and create safe spaces to have conversations with clients around what it is that they need, what it is that they fear, what can I do to support them, who can I bring in? And, and that's what, that's what I enjoy.[00:54:00]

[00:54:00] Mary: You know, it's interesting as you talk about, 'cause you said was you were sort of describing Abu Dhabi and that everybody is there, has a kind of positive, bigger future. They're there for, you know, aspiration. They have hope for life, they wanna optimize life. And so I just wonder, that's a, you tell me, but is that a very different, sentiment than in the uk?

[00:54:25] James: Yeah. I mean, it's there in the uk but it's, it's, it's, it's more difficult to find, like, here it's, it's in abundance.

[00:54:33] Mary: Yeah.

[00:54:33] James: You know,

[00:54:34] James: I think the majority of people, you know, there's no, there's no squatters in the UAE. There's no, you know, there's no right. You, you, you either come here, you perform or you leave.

[00:54:45] James: So it it, it is, it is, it, it's set up for success. And if you wanna be successful and work hard and get your head down and create opportunity and, and serve, you will do well here. If [00:55:00] you just come here to try and sponge and sit around and be lazy and, and take it, it won't, it won't last. Yeah. And, and for me, there is a lot more of that in the uk.

[00:55:13] Mary: Yeah. Well, I just, it occurs to me like, you know, we talk about how you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with, and you are like your, your surroundings, your environment, the culture, you know, you surround yourself in shapes who you are. And so I just, it's interesting to me, first of all, you have this like sweet spirit that wants to help other people and lift them up.

[00:55:37] Mary: And so as you describe the, you know, Abu Dhabi, it, it feels like that's the place where you can do that without getting soul crushed or beaten up by other, you know, currents of different, like, you know, the, the downtrodden, the whatever. Like, it feels like you found a place for [00:56:00] this to manifest a little bit easier than maybe if you were, I don't know, in the streets of New York or wherever.

[00:56:07] James: Yeah. Yeah, it, it, it, what the, the challenge here was that it takes hard to get into the rooms to have these type of conversations. It takes time to build relationships. So that was the tricky bit. But now, obviously being here 15 years and putting a lot of groundwork in and consistency of showing up and trying to help and serve it, it works now, but the first kind of seven, eight years was tough.

[00:56:31] Mary: Okay. Would that be true anywhere in, in wealth management? Like I, I know that it's not easy to, you know, if your, if your target is high net worth folks, it's not easy to just be like, Hey, I have no clients, but I'd like to work with you.

[00:56:48] James: I think because of the culture and the U.A.E. in general has probably been burnt probably a little bit more than others, 'cause regulation and things that have only come in, [00:57:00] you know, recently I think there was, there was.

[00:57:05] James: It's more conservative as, as a, as a concept. And I think letting people in opening up takes a bit more time.

[00:57:14] Mary: Okay. So last question on this topic experience. Yeah, no, I get that. I get that. So what's possible in your life now that you made the decision to 15 years ago to go into wealth management and live in Abu Dhabi?

[00:57:31] James: Many things because I think now, you know, financially I'm in a place of, of freedom where mm-hmm. You know, I can say no to certain clients if I don't want to, whereas before was always, you know, so I think now we're in a position where we can really have then deep and meaningful connections with clients, which then, you know, as a result.

[00:57:57] James: challenges me. So you have to show up even [00:58:00] more. 'cause I'm always thinking of, you know, if you, if you get that trust, you have to show up in a, in, in a, in a even greater way than you have done before. Mm-hmm. And keep learning of how, how I can add value. we have a young family, so it means that I can spend time with them.

[00:58:14] James: And that's always a learning curve. And how to try and be a, be a father, be a parent, and just learning and the, the community and the connection. I mean, I, I really do feel like I am in a place that I, I love doing the thing that I really love doing. And for me, it's just now about spiraling up the connections of people around me, working with, and just trying to make sure that I'm working with the right people, which give me energy, support the future, vision, learn, come up with new ideas and, and just grow.

[00:58:46] James: I mean, for me, I just wanna keep learning and growing, which then means I can add more value and keep serving.

[00:58:53] Mary: Beautiful. Thank you. World and not the world out there is lucky to have you.

[00:58:58] James: Thank you. I mean, it sounds [00:59:00] all very cheesy, but you both know that it's true. What I'm saying, it comes from a place, you know, it's not just words.

[00:59:07] Mary: Totally. It doesn't come across in any way. Like it's a all sizzle and no stake. It's the opposite. Mm-hmm. It is who it is, a reflection of who you are. But actually we just heard the story of you growing up in your golf story. Like it is, you're doing what you're doing there, you're doing exactly what you were doing back then.

[00:59:23] Mary: Just it manifests differently. Serving different people in a different place. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Thanks James. Okay. Stel, second moment that changed everything for you. Uh, James.

[00:59:37] Stel: James. James. okay. I'm gonna go with, the first time I went on an upside down rollercoaster. Really? Yes.

[00:59:50] Mary: Love it. Talk to me about that. I love it. Those are scary to me.

[00:59:53] Stel: So I was probably in around the same age, 10, 11, I don't remember. And [01:00:00] uh, my, it was with my aunt and my cousin, and he was a year younger than, than I was.

[01:00:06] Stel: We'd never gone on a rollercoaster at all. And my aunt basically said, by the end of the day, you're gonna be going, it's called the Dragon Fire at Canada's Wonder Line. Mm-hmm. It was the biggest one back then. And, uh, by the end of the day, you're gonna go on the upside down rollercoaster, and I'm thinking there's no way.

[01:00:24] Stel: We've never even been on a rollercoaster before.

[01:00:26] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[01:00:27] Stel: So we started at Kitty land and went on the ghost of Coaster, which still exists to this day. And, um, you know, there's that fear of am I gonna make it? What's gonna happen? Right. The fear of the unknown. And then at the end of the first ride, you get that adrenaline rush and it's like, do it again.

[01:00:46] Stel: Do it again. Do it again. We must have done it about 10 times. Mm-hmm. And then we built the courage to then go to the second coaster. A little bit bigger than that. Yeah. And then third, fourth, fifth, and then finally at the end of the day, it was time to go on the dragon [01:01:00] fire. And there was this pit in my stomach.

[01:01:04] Stel: I was scared crapless thinking, how on earth are we gonna go upside down on this thing? How's it gonna, how's this gonna work out? And, uh, my aunt's like, you need, you need to get on that coaster. And we did. Right. And then when we, you know, finished it, it was just, it was a feeling that, uh. I, I can't necessarily describe.

[01:01:24] Stel: but the reason I bring it up, and Mary, this is when we were speaking and the, the pivotal point for me that I thought was the pivotal point was when, uh, we, we had, uh, so Gabriel and, and Michael, they were twins.

[01:01:41] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[01:01:42] Stel: And Michael wasn't gonna make it to birth. And then they called an emergency C-section at 26 weeks one day.

[01:01:49] Stel: And, uh, they left me in front of the operating room doors alone at night. And I'd mentioned that this was massively pivotal, uh, as a [01:02:00] moment, but I guess it wasn't the first time. Right. So as you two were talking right now, it took me right back to say, okay, when was that first time that I felt that fear of the unknown?

[01:02:09] Stel: What's gonna happen on the other side? Am I gonna be able to do this? Yeah. Right. And it was, it was literally. those, those doors going into the operating room that I had to pass and I had no idea what was gonna, I was gonna find on the other side. and then again, when we had the conversation, it was when Gabriel right, who's in a wheelchair and has cerebral palsy, went on the Leviathan, which is the biggest rolls rollercoaster at Canada's Wonderland by far.

[01:02:37] Stel: Mm-hmm. You know, 350 meters high, 140 miles an hour in speed. and geez, it was the exact same feeling that I had before the Dragon Fire. Exact same feeling I had before I crossed those operating room doors and the exact same feeling before, you know, I took both kids, but mainly Gabriel on that, uh, on the Leviathan.

[01:02:56] Stel: So it was,

[01:02:57] Mary: isn't that

[01:02:58] Mary: fascinating that you [01:03:00] have, like, you felt a physical feeling in your body, like it was associated with an intense amount of fear, but also that you had to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And so with, with, um. Now I'm going fast forward to when you had Gabe's on going on the same fear, but for him, not you, like the moment for him, not, not like, not you, that you worried about his wellbeing, but that you were going on a, on that big of a rollercoaster with your son who is in a wheelchair.

[01:03:29] Mary: Like was it that?

[01:03:30] Stel: Well,

[01:03:30] Stel: so I, I write it in the book. I mean, it's, it's a key moment that I wrote in the book. He didn't have the fear at all. I mean, he was like, come on, dad, let's go. Yeah. It was, it was the fear that was happening inside of me and the strategies that were going on in my head to try and figure out.

[01:03:43] Stel: Okay. I, I never ever say it's not possible with him, both of 'em, but it, that whole thing is if it's possible to make it happen. Mm-hmm. Um, but the, the strategies that were going on in my head to make sure that he was safe and if this is the right thing to do, I mean, it was just, I, I what, and I write it in the book too, [01:04:00] like I didn't breathe once.

[01:04:02] Stel: Throughout the whole ride. Like at all. Really,

[01:04:04] James: really

[01:04:05] Stel: at all.

[01:04:05] Mary: With who two

[01:04:07] Stel: with him. Yeah. I mean, I was looking over him the whole time just to make sure everything was good. He was just having a blast. It was, it was all the fears that were happening inside of me that, uh,

[01:04:17] Mary: yeah.

[01:04:18] Stel: That were the same.

[01:04:18] Mary: So tell me

[01:04:19] Mary: then, right, so the same physical manifestation, like the same fear, it's very primal, I'm imagining.

[01:04:25] Mary: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like I can't even go on a roller coaster, like, you know, I've been on a few and not a fan.

[01:04:29] James: Oh

[01:04:29] James: really?

[01:04:30] Mary: Oh yeah. I have like an unreason. Intellectually I know I'm safe, but I have an unreasonable fear of like falling. and that sort of plummeting we did like, you know, you can go on those ropes, like those, um, through the trees and you like walk on wood.

[01:04:48] Mary: Yeah. The brick.

[01:04:49] James: Um, yeah.

[01:04:50] Mary: You know what I'm talking about, right? Yep. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. When my son was like seven, we went on the high ropes, which is like, I don't know, like two stories high, not that high. And you're [01:05:00] like chained in, like you have, like, there's zero way you're falling zip, but they do things zip line.

[01:05:05] Mary: I'm sorry. It's like that. But you're walking, you're walking and they have like these, oh wow, okay. High ropes, low ropes through the trees, whatever. And there are different things they'll do. Like, um, they'll have no railings and you just have to walk on these like boards. But you're, you're chained in. Like you have like a, like there's no way you're gonna, I, I could not step off the ledge onto the thing.

[01:05:26] Mary: I was like completely afraid. And my son is like already at the other side. Like he had no fear, whatever. So it's like a very like physical primal safety to the human body thing that I have. I don't, I'm sure, I'm sure there's some great fear somewhere that, is playing itself out, but, so Stella, I'm curious now that you've, you've connected these moments.

[01:05:46] Mary: And you know, how it like feels in your body and it's probably the most terror ever. Like, it's probably the most terror. Like that's what I'm hearing from you. Like when you, when you think about these moments for your own safety, for [01:06:00] your children's safety, right? So what do you do in the, like what do you understand about those moments now that you've kind of, you know, connected them and made sense of them?

[01:06:13] Stel: the, you mentioned it, right? Like, I mean, it's primal, it's in your body. Mm-hmm. And it's actually connect division.

[01:06:21] Mary: Okay.

[01:06:21] Stel: Right. Because if you think about a, that primal fear that occurs viscerally in your body.

[01:06:27] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[01:06:28] Stel: Then the second thing is in terms of what you attend to, everything is just in fight or flight response.

[01:06:33] Stel: So it's all constricted, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then when, when I notice these things now, and now that I'm aware of 'em. It's how do we reframe the situation so that it allows movement in the metaphor of how do we go through that door?

[01:06:51] Mary: Right?

[01:06:51] Stel: Okay. So we know that there's a door there. We know that there's fear there, and we don't know what's on the other side.

[01:06:57] Stel: Mm-hmm. So now the question is, what is it that's gonna [01:07:00] drive us to get to the other side? And the more awarenesses that show up in what you do, in terms of getting us back to that initial moment, is to say, look, we've done it before. This isn't new. Right? So James has done it before with golf, so it's not new.

[01:07:14] Stel: But now that we have these awarenesses, we have a flip side to say, who have we cut? Who have we become because of the situation that happened back then?

[01:07:23] Stel: Yeah. And

[01:07:23] Stel: by the way, we can't negate the good moments that occurred too. Right. And then you combine the two, bring it together, and now you're replaying a past with the wisdom of Yeah.

[01:07:34] Stel: What we've gained in, in our compelling futures. Right. So now everybody's gonna look at James and go, oh my God, he's a successful finance guy in Abu Dhabi, in the UAE Oh criminal lawyer too. And Yeah. But nobody understands Yeah. What it was like when we were growing up. Yeah. And everything that we had to go through and understand what that is.

[01:07:50] Stel: Right? Yeah. So this is

[01:07:51] Mary: what's so

[01:07:51] Mary: interesting to me with, with your, um, the first rollercoaster is a fear. And you're like, no, I have to do it. I have to do it. You do [01:08:00] it, and then you get to this critical moment in the hospital when you're on the other side of the door, and you just know that you have to push through.

[01:08:07] Mary: I wonder. Would you be so daring? And so o um, like I, I love that you take Gabe's and make sure that he has all these experiences and you're not gonna let the world tell you no, he can't. 'cause he is in a wheelchair. But I wonder like, did it take those moments and that skillset of understanding, I'm so afraid, but I'm still gonna go through the door to get him on that, on that rollercoaster and then to challenge him in life in the future, you know, so he can have the fullest life possible.

[01:08:36] Mary: Like, it's those experiences that help you get to the next one. Like a lot of parents would be like, oh God no, he, he can't go on a big rollercoaster like that. That would be too dangerous, right?

[01:08:46] Stel: A hundred percent. A hundred. Look, the Gregory, the Gregory story, right? All inclusive. Make sure anything's possible going through that door, despite the fear, experiencing something internally, like what you mentioned before in terms of the [01:09:00] group and why I was a good captain.

[01:09:02] Stel: I did have a fear of loneliness. That's the thing that drove me. So then I provided the, you know, yeah, the social scene around me, that's transformed into being alone and comfortable being alone now. But, you know, these are all unconscious thoughts that we don't know are happening. But the, the other thing too is knowing what you want and understanding the purpose behind it, right?

[01:09:22] Stel: Mm-hmm. So, you know, is family important to me? A hundred percent is, you know, you know, being a dad and, uh, and the best possible version of a father to the kids, important to me, a hundred percent. And being present in that moment. Is it easy? Hell no.

[01:09:38] Mary: No,

[01:09:38] Stel: hell

[01:09:38] Stel: no. But did those moments help me? Like achieve, what I have and define you a hundred percent.

[01:09:45] Stel: I mean, it just happened this weekend, right? They have a brand new rollercoaster at Wonderland that Gabe's wanted to go, you know, see this weekend? Yeah. And it's the first time he went upside down, ironically. And this thing is just blistering fast. [01:10:00] And the way that the harness works is it pushes right up against his right foot in a, in a bar.

[01:10:05] Stel: And then when he gets excited, the the foot um, moves forward. And I thought, oh man, what's gonna happen if it's too much pressure on there? How do I work this? And the same strategy was going over and over and over again. Mm-hmm. But it is all of those events, like the athlete, the strategies, understanding how do we win, how do we get through this?

[01:10:23] Stel: A hundred percent.

[01:10:24] Mary: You

[01:10:24] Mary: know what's fascinating to me? And I don't know how, like, I mean, I know we are all big believers in the kind of universal energy that connects us all, but your story still, the way that this is all coming out, it, it feels cosmically. Like you were built to be Gabe's dad. You know, that, that your two souls needed to find each other because you were gonna do this and you had all of these things behind you.

[01:10:49] Mary: Even going back to the Gregory story, right, and the mean teacher and the like, it's just fascinating to me that, here you are creating life and innate experience for your, this [01:11:00] little human that says, you know, obviously giving you so many gifts too, but it's just pretty cool. Yeah, it's funny. Anyway.

[01:11:08] Mary: Oh,

[01:11:09] Mary: okay.

[01:11:10] Mary: Okay. Let's do a lightning round of your last pivotal moment that you wanna talk about before we sign off. We'll do like a three minute intro to it or whatever, James, if he can.

[01:11:24] James: well, as, as a third one,

[01:11:26] Mary: yeah.

[01:11:26] James: I think, for me is, last year went through a, uh, we're a regulated firm, went through a, a tough time, as you both know, and, um, just not really seeing I two y with a regulator on a particular piece that, that we were working on.

[01:11:47] James: but one thing that that did for me, and I'm so grateful for it, is because as tough as it was on the time, at the time, and I take things personally and obviously, you know, especially when I'm showing up and trying to create massive value for [01:12:00] families.

[01:12:00] Mary: Yeah.

[01:12:01] James: And as

[01:12:01] James: an entrepreneur, we just see the results and obviously trying to go through the, the regulation piece.

[01:12:08] James: but what it did was, 'cause I worried about that for a few months and what it did was, was made me realize that no ma, no matter how bad and dark a moment gets, you will always get through this. Mm.

[01:12:21] James: And, and

[01:12:21] James: it thickened my skin. It made me more resilient to things like this. And I think I'm now equipped that's, if anything, and there will always be things like this in our life, whatever it is, for sure there's going to be events like this that come along and it just, I think it will, it is made me a stronger person.

[01:12:39] Mary: Yeah.

[01:12:39] James: And

[01:12:39] James: so I'm, I'm grateful for that.

[01:12:42] Mary: It's, um, yeah, it's one of those moments just from knowing a little bit about it, is it takes you back to like, what if there is no income? What if we have to move? Yeah. What if like, like it takes you back to like the most primal needs, which is like food, shelter, clothing for your [01:13:00] family,

[01:13:00] James: right

[01:13:01] Mary: Yeah. Like, I know it didn't get that bad or anything like that, but there is, it, it questions all of the things you've built.

[01:13:07] James: Of course. Yeah.

[01:13:07] Mary: And then, and then to, um, know you going through some of that a little bit and this like the internal dialogue of this is really getting me down and yet I still need to push through.

[01:13:18] James: Yeah,

[01:13:18] Mary: like there's like that, that, um, like there's no choice. There's no, there's no choice but to continue to push through.

[01:13:26] James: And, and the three of us at the time I remember was having, you know, some really nice conversations around that. The good, the goodness is here, let's suffer a bit longer because the longer that you suffer or the more that we suffer or the, the, the lower that you go, the more goodness and learning because you've gotta develop new characteristics and skills to come back out of it.

[01:13:44] James: And that's where, that's, that's the whole purpose of this. And, um, yeah, we had some really good chats and, and you know, I was grateful for you to support me through that. but I, I do think that, you know, no matter how dark is time, they always say [01:14:00] time is a healer. But you, you, you know, you, you go through it and it's very difficult when you're going through a tough time.

[01:14:06] James: And, and whether or not it's family, it's personal, it's work, or you know, it's health, whatever it is, um, you will get through it. And it's just the, the, the more events that happened in your life, it does make you realize that yes, I've been in this situation before and in really dark moments, but I did get through it and it, for some people it might be Sure people, somebody might take years.

[01:14:28] Mary: Yeah.

[01:14:28] James: But

[01:14:28] James: you do come through it and, and you'll be a different person, but you'll get through it.

[01:14:33] Mary: You know, it makes me think about, like, tell me if this is true or false, that the tools and the the strengths that we, we build, like you just talked about James a hundred percent of the time come from the struggle.

[01:14:48] James: Well, yeah, absolutely.

[01:14:49] Mary: Like we

[01:14:50] Mary: don't really, I know, I know. Like we, we all believe, the three of us definitely believe that we build on strength. So what we're naturally good at and what we naturally comes [01:15:00] easy and stuff like that, you build from a place of strength. But every single time I've grown has been, come out of a pa place of struggle.

[01:15:10] Mary: Like, I'm so intensely grateful for those moments because they wouldn't have the skills and tools like they say that thing. And, um, there's a book, and I can't remember the name of the book, but it'll be in the show notes at some point. hard times create strong people. Strong people create good times.

[01:15:31] Mary: Good times create weak people. Weak people create bad times, bad times create strong people. Like it's a, it's, it's like a, it's a, a cycle. And that within this book, yeah, they go over generation after generation, after generation and proven it to be true that, you know, you know, soft people who have just grown up in easy times don't have the skills and tools and the grit and the resilience, all that stuff you were just talking about to [01:16:00] create the good time.

[01:16:00] Mary: So you're creating your own, in your own cycle of life. That time helped you create a good time. Yeah.

[01:16:08] James: And no

[01:16:08] James: matter how much people can share stories of tough times that they went through

[01:16:14] Mary: mm-hmm.

[01:16:14] James: It's nice to know that other people struggled and they got through it. And it's encouraging. Doesn't, doesn't help.

[01:16:20] James: I mean, it doesn't, doesn't take the feeling or pain away. You've still gotta, you've gotta go through it and all the goodness is in them dark moments and the sleepless nights and the worrying go. That's what creates your character and your strength.

[01:16:31] James: Totally. You can't, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a, it's an internal exercise, but you can get inspiration externally.

[01:16:39] James: Yeah. And know that other people have done things and it can keep your head above water, but it's an internal battle for sure.

[01:16:45] James: Yeah.

[01:16:45] Mary: Yeah. Thanks for that, James. Okay. Still final moment. That changed everything.

[01:16:52] Stel: The slinky

[01:16:54] Mary: I love as a rollercoaster and a slinky. Tell me more.

[01:16:59] Stel: [01:17:00] Um,

[01:17:00] Mary: I love that you

[01:17:00] Mary: looked at your notes for it.

[01:17:01] Mary: I was like, let me think about this. The slinky.

[01:17:04] Stel: The slinky. I have lots of

[01:17:05] Stel: notes. See, every time you guys speak, I'm always, I'm always right.

[01:17:08] Mary: I love

[01:17:08] Stel: it. yeah, no, the, the, the key moments that I'm realizing for me and a lot of actually the clients that I work with happen at age, uh, 7, 8, 9.

[01:17:21] Mary: Yeah.

[01:17:22] Stel: That's typically where there's a shift.

[01:17:24] Stel: And you know, I think one of the reasons is 'cause we're, you know, wide open in terms of what's possible before that. You know what I mean? Like Right. Superman and dolls and everything's possible. And tooth theory and

[01:17:37] Mary: magic, magic Santa almost days magic,

[01:17:40] Stel: right? Yeah. And we're wide. And then at 6, 7, 8, something shuts down.

[01:17:44] Stel: Uh, and we move sort of into conscious awareness, right? Everything's gotta be done right and go to school. And today's the first day of school, everything has to get organized. but one of the, the things I'm grateful for is my, my parents were always big on giving back. And then, [01:18:00] my dad had to work, so we'd always go with my mom down to sit kids hospital

[01:18:04] Mary: mm-hmm.

[01:18:04] Stel: And drop off a toy, right? And we had five bucks so that we'd go to Kmart, whatever, or I can't remember the buy way it was called at the time. And I would always buy a slinky, right? 'cause it was always within the five bucks. And I thought it was the coolest thing ever watching that thing go down the stairs.

[01:18:20] Mary: I love when toys were that cool, like those types of toys were that cool. 'cause now it's like some new video game that's $80 and super fancy. But the Slinky's an amazing toy, the

[01:18:30] Stel: slinky. So we would drop off the Slinky and I always wondered which kid got the slinky. And uh, and then I wondered if the, you know, the custodian would take it and never got to the kid anyways, in high school.

[01:18:42] Stel: Uh, I went with, uh, my best friend at the time. He went to come with me and it was his first time. He didn't even know I, we did this when I was a kid. Mm-hmm. And I had five gifts. And I said to him, I wish I knew who, who, which kid got my gift? He goes, let's go upstairs and drop it off on the floor. Like, why, why you drop it off here?

[01:18:57] Stel: I'm like, we can't go on the floor. He goes, why not? So [01:19:00] we went to the oncology floor and we handed out these gifts all throughout high school and, um, you know, it was pivotal in terms of understanding contribution. Understanding impact, doing things unconditionally, giving things unconditionally. providing support to those that weren't as fortunate.

[01:19:18] Stel: Like it was just a whole mm-hmm. Uh, RMA rule. I do talk about it in the book. I won't tell you how it ends. Read the book and you'll see. Um, but, but the whole contribution and the one thing that James mentioned too, like being around. Not high net worth people. That's a, a component of it. 'cause I've met some of his clients and it's not about the net worth.

[01:19:41] Stel: They're, they're massively wealthy in every way. And one of 'em is give back initiatives. And IW was there, and I don't want to talk about the story right now 'cause of the time I was there to experience a high net worth individual that had massive contributions in terms of the hu human aspect to her. And it was beautiful to watch, right?

[01:19:59] Stel: And [01:20:00] being around high, you know what I say, uh, wealthy people in terms of mindset also made me, uh, realize the importance of, you know, stimulation of the mind in terms of a sport or an art or something that we're really, really good at. To then shift the neurology, which then allows the brain work differently, think differently, be differently, and then, go through situations like James, what he went through.

[01:20:25] Stel: Because having people to support you while you're going through it, uh, is huge. It's a huge impact. Yeah. It's not their story, it's just the fact that, you know, that they're there half the time. I don't even ask for the help, but just knowing that they're there makes a huge, huge impact. Anyways, I could talk forever, but thanks to both of you.

[01:20:41] Stel: by the way, one of the initiatives, the main initiatives that showed up post, uh, putting our, our, um, meaningful mischief on pause were the stories that we talked about that now have come into the package of the book. Like that's one of the, the, you know, strategic [01:21:00] Yeah. Sort of, uh, of, outcomes from, from our podcast.

[01:21:04] Stel: So it's been amazing.

[01:21:05] Mary: Oh, that's

[01:21:05] Mary: nice. Yeah. Like everything we do contributes to the next thing we do. Yep. In our meaningful mischief

[01:21:11] James: Yeah.

[01:21:11] Mary: Journey. And maybe there's, you know, we, we, we revive it at some point too, but I love hearing that. I love that.

[01:21:19] James: Or a

[01:21:19] James: new version. There'll be, there'll be something new that the three of us connect and work on For sure.

[01:21:24] Mary: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Well, you guys are wonderful. Thank you for doing this with me. Do you have one?

[01:21:29] Stel: My pleasure.

[01:21:30] Mary: Thought if you could leave the world with one message that could have to fit on a billboard, just like one sentence, what would it be? You can draw from this conversation if you like,

[01:21:45] James: you in connection.

[01:21:46] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[01:21:50] James: I think, um, and as the world is evolving more into technology, I think that's where, you know, just seeing where, where you could show, not, [01:22:00] there's not one word, build hood, but Yeah. I think just human connection.

[01:22:03] Mary: Yeah. Connect.

[01:22:04] James: Yeah,

[01:22:05] Mary: connect. There's a book I read who, what was it? But there was a key moment in it.

[01:22:11] Mary: I remember what it was, damnit, but it was only connect was essentially the message was, uh, that's, and, and all of our stories have a version of that in it, and connecting for the good, connecting when it through hard times, connection as a way of giving, giving the our gifts away, you know, connection as a way of forgetting what sort of miserable situation we're in when our golf clubs are broken.

[01:22:37] James: Mm-hmm.

[01:22:38] Mary: And

[01:22:38] Mary: connecting and giving, you know, giving to someone else helps you, um, you know, let go of your own strife and struggles. Right. Yeah.

[01:22:47] Mary: Love it.

[01:22:48] Mary: How about you still, how about you still,

[01:22:51] Stel: uh, mine's easy. I mean, embrace your story would be, my,

[01:22:57] Mary: uh mm-hmm.

[01:22:57] Stel: Last, last words and [01:23:00] as a shout out to you, Mary.

[01:23:02] Stel: Call Mary and ask her to put you through the on prpose process with regards to what your three moments are. 'cause it's, um, you facilitate it unbelievably well. It's a unique ability of yours, uh, and it's really life changing. And I, I want the listeners to hear it 'cause uh, I know you won't toot your own horn, but I will and I'll do it again.

[01:23:20] Mary: You're so nice.

[01:23:21] Stel: But it's, it's, it's, it's truly valuable and, the best investment you can make. So.

[01:23:28] Mary: You are so lovely. Thank you so much. And I hope today from this conversation that people like, I, I saw it happen with you guys too, that as one of you was talking, the other one was thinking more deeply about the, those events that we tend to like are the scaffolding of our life.

[01:23:42] Mary: We know there our biography, but digging into them and understanding them more deeply helps us understand ourselves today differently than we might've understood ourselves five minutes ago or three weeks ago, or five years ago. So, yeah. Thank you guys for sharing your story. I love you.

[01:23:59] Stel: [01:24:00] We love you too.

[01:24:01] Mary: Alright.

[01:24:01] James: Thank

[01:24:01] James: you very much, both of you.

[01:24:03] Mary: And

[01:24:03] James: we'll chat, we'll chat soon for sure.

[01:24:06] Mary: Awesome.