Inside the Three Moments That Redefined Lisa Larter’s Life

Highlights:

Hello listeners. Thanks so much for tuning in. This week's episode is with my friend Lisa Larter. She is a serial entrepreneur, an author I believe several times over a podcast host the She Talks Business podcast and AI expert, and so many other things. This conversation goes go into the way back, and she has a beautiful way of picking very specific moments in her life that created turning points for her and lessons for how she.

[00:00:29] Mary: goes about the world and leads and supports her clients. So, um, you get to hear about the red pen incident, the learnings of being sick as a kid, and what else? Hmm, when someone's expectations of you are higher than your own, the power of that. So anyway, I hope you enjoy this conversation with Lisa as much as I did.

[00:00:52] Mary: Have a great week.

Podcast Intro:

[00:00:55] Mary: Welcome to and that changed everything. I'm your host, Mary Farrin, and this is a show where some of the world's most interesting and successful people unpack three pivotal moments that shaped who they are and how they show up. I've been working with business leaders for decades, and it's clear, it's the stories, not the titles that shape us.

[00:01:16] Mary: These moments change how we lead, how we live, and what we make possible. I learned so much from each of these conversations, and I hope you do too. Let's jump in.

Podcast:

[00:01:26] Mary: Okay. Let's start by telling me one of your favorite books of late. I know you're a big reader.

[00:01:33] Lisa: Well, this is probably gonna be a surprise to you because typically I am known for all of the business books that I read. Mm-hmm. But I've been getting back into reading fiction books, so there's a little bit of a backstory there.

[00:01:46] Lisa: Years ago I met Zig Ziglar at an event, and one of the things that Zig Ziglar said when he was speaking is that he had never read a fiction book in his entire life because if he was going to read, he wanted to read to learn. And so I used to read tons of fiction books and when he said that, I was like, oh, I need to read more business books.

[00:02:03] Lisa: So I went through a few decades of my life where I read very few fiction books, and now I'm really back into reading more fiction books. So the one that I recently read is called When the Cranes Fly South, and. The reason that this book was so powerful for me is, uh, my mom's been really sick since, you know, I don't know, I'm gonna say midway through COVID.

[00:02:28] Lisa: She is one of those people. She had, I think her third booster and then all of a sudden her health started to deteriorate really, really badly. And I mean, we don't know if it was the booster or if it was just the timing of her health, but it happened right around then. And, uh, she has COPD and this summer she started to hemorrhage from her nose, like, and we're not talking a normal nose bleed, we're talking hemorrhaging.

[00:02:55] Lisa: And she ended up spending, I think, almost three weeks in the hospital. And I had to come home to Canada and spend time with her. And, uh, I found myself going into fix it mode. You know, her apartment wasn't as organized as I wanted to be, so I needed to fix it. She had too much furniture. I was afraid she was gonna fall down, so I needed to fix it and get rid of stuff.

[00:03:14] Lisa: The spare bedroom that never gets used had empty boxes in it, so I needed to get rid of them and fix it. I needed to go through the cupboards and get rid of expired food, like all this stuff that I wanted to fix. And my mom, she got a little bit, she got really upset with me, and she's like, Lisa, like this is my life.

[00:03:31] Lisa: Like, you're, you're getting rid of things. That's my life. Like, leave it alone. Like, I am happy with the way I am right now. Like, why do you have to do this? And so I started reading this book when the Cranes Fly South. And this book is written from the perspective of an elderly man whose wife has dementia.

[00:03:52] Lisa: She's been taken away from him, and she lives in a home, and he now lives by himself. And like I have done for my mom, I have pws that go see her every day. His son hired carers, they're called in the book to go see him every day. And it is the story from an aging person that knows that their life's runway is coming to an end and how frustrating and difficult it is for them to see their kids focusing on all of these things that feel to them, like they're stripping away the life and dignity that they have left.

[00:04:30] Lisa: And it touched me profoundly that I was putting my mom in the situation that this man was describing how he felt about what his son was doing to him. And it just made me realize that as our parents age. It's like we become the caretaker, we become the parent, and we think we know what's best for them and we forget that they're adults and there are things that we may wanna do that help them, that are really hurtful for them.

[00:05:01] Lisa: You know, in this story, and I won't, I won't give it all away, but, and the man and his son have a real power struggle over his dog because he's not really well enough to take his dog out for walks. He's not really well enough to take his dog outside to go to the bathroom. Uh, he's not well enough to make sure his dog gets fed and has water as often as it should.

[00:05:23] Lisa: And so there's this constant battle, but the man feels like the dog is the only thing he has left that makes him happy. And the irony is, you know, my mom is stage four COPD and I have been on her case my entire life to quit smoking. And she has said to me. Lisa, you want me to give up the one thing that still brings me joy?

[00:05:46] Lisa: And so I just see my perspective shifting so much. So anyone who has aging parents that feels like you need to go in and parent them, I would encourage you, read this book.

[00:05:57] Mary: Holy. Is that ever a bomb to drop? I mean, I am, uh, as you're describing this, I'm thinking my own lived experience how many times I'm like, you guys need to eat more vegetables.

[00:06:10] Mary: You need to get up and move. I wanna get you help in, in the home for exercise. Like all of these things. Mm-hmm. And it's true, like it's out of love. It's out of, it's out of love. But it's from the perspective of someone at 50, not 80. And so I'm projecting what I need to feel comfortable. For them. Which is

[00:06:33] Lisa: exactly,

[00:06:34] Mary: oh, for

[00:06:35] Lisa: exactly.

[00:06:35] Lisa: And you know, my mom, my mom, she's got, I would call it clutter all over her coffee table because she spends like 99% of her time on the couch. And I wanna like organize the coffee table. And she's like, why? It doesn't bother me. Everything I need is there. And I know where it is and it's easy for me to get it, just leave it alone.

[00:06:55] Lisa: But I'm like, it's too much clutter. I need to fix it. And so my mom is going to experience a different side of her daughter the next time I go to visit. I am, you know, clearly. Moving the furniture out. Some of the furniture out was the smart thing to do because she is on oxygen 24 7. She lives in a small space.

[00:07:16] Lisa: She had too much furniture. It was probably a safety risk for her to trip and fall. But I need to weigh through the lens of like, is this gonna affect her safety and wellbeing or is this me just being OCD? 'cause I think her apartment should be a certain way. Right?

[00:07:32] Mary: Yeah. What a good lesson. You've dropped on us in the beginning here.

[00:07:36] Lisa: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:37] Mary: Everybody. Lisa Larder, my guest today, my friend I've now known you for, is it two years? Going on? Two years? It's

[00:07:45] Lisa: almost two years. Yeah.

[00:07:46] Mary: Going on two years. Yes.

[00:07:47] Lisa: My

[00:07:47] Lisa: elevator. BFF.

[00:07:49] Mary: I know we're at a conference of entrepreneurs and it's fair to say most of the entrepreneurs there, there's probably 80 20 men and women, right?

[00:07:57] Lisa: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:58] Mary: Even maybe more. 90 10.

[00:07:59] Lisa: Yeah. I was gonna say 90 10.

[00:08:01] Mary: Yeah. Yeah. And so day one of the conference we're at one of the conference hotels. Not even like in the same. Hotel as the conference itself, but we're staying at the same hotel. Didn't know that. Okay. In the elevator, we have name tags on, all of a sudden we're fast friends.

[00:08:16] Mary: Okay. Also, Lisa's a serial entrepreneur. She's a strategist, a marketer, an AI expert, a podcast host. We had lots and lots to talk about right out of the gates, so, thank you for being my guest. I'm very excited to hear about the moments that made you into this person that you are.

[00:08:33] Lisa: Thanks for being my new

[00:08:34] Mary: that I've come to know and love.

[00:08:35] Lisa: Yeah, thanks for being my new BFF and for continuing. Like, I feel like sometimes you go to these events and you meet people and then it's like, oh, let's keep in touch, keep by, see you see, and then you never hear from them again. And I feel like you and I have done a really good job of staying in touch and supporting each other since we met.

[00:08:52] Lisa: And I don't know what your audience is like, who's listening to this, but I think more women need to do that for each other.

[00:08:58] Mary: Mm-hmm. We had a really cool conversation too, like baby, within hours of meeting each other. 'cause you could look at our resumes and businesses and say, oh, they kind of do the same thing.

[00:09:10] Mary: And we could have had the guard up and the, you know, oh, we're competing. I'm not gonna share my trade secrets or whatever. But like, we didn't come at it from that perspective. Mm-hmm. Turns out we love a lot of the same things. And so there's a Venn diagram of what we offer, but there's also, we're different people who have passions for different parts of strategy, communications, marketing, and all of that.

[00:09:33] Mary: So, I think when we approach something from a competitive standpoint, we just miss the opportunity so much to learn, grow, support. So I completely, wholeheartedly agree with that.

[00:09:44] Lisa: Yeah. I think, uh, competition, I mean, competition is good, but I think when you wanna collaborate with someone and you have that guard up, I think.

[00:09:54] Lisa: Competition. I think that type of competitiveness actually diminishes your ability to be successful together.

[00:10:01] Mary: Yeah. I think it one that somebody really smart once talked about how, you know, don't worry about the competition, worry about your customers, worry about what they need and everything else will work itself out.

[00:10:11] Lisa: Yeah. Sarah Blakely said that I never ever focused on my competition. I focused on serving my customers

[00:10:17] Mary: well. I have like five different cha tangents we could go down and right now Sarah Blakely, I have ordered two items from Spanx in my entire life. I put them on and they were perfect. Like, have you bus what she's doing in the world?

[00:10:31] Mary: What's that?

[00:10:32] Lisa: Have you bought her sneaks yet?

[00:10:34] Mary: No, but like I have, I almost have like season tickets for anything she does because her mission to support women. Mm-hmm. I was like, I've, you know, it's very rare to be able to just like hit, like hit buy on the internet to a new brand you've never tried before.

[00:10:48] Mary: Have it arrive in the box. Perfect length, perfect fit, comfortable. Mm-hmm. Like, like I'm wearing pajamas, so yeah. That's, she's the bee's knees too. She, okay. One more thing before we move on, because you mentioned what were you saying about Zig Ziglar earlier?

[00:11:04] Lisa: He's paint. Yeah. He never read fiction looks.

[00:11:06] Mary: Yeah. Okay. It made me think about a quote by Picasso, which I won't get Right. But roughly it is this, we all know that art is a lie. It's a lie that shows us the truth.

[00:11:18] Lisa: Hmm.

[00:11:20] Mary: And so I have an English degree, like English literature undergrad, which gets no one a job, but you learn about humans through the lens of stories.

[00:11:29] Lisa: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:30] Mary: And so, you know, fiction isn't fake. And, and, and nonfiction isn't true either.

[00:11:36] Lisa: Exactly,

[00:11:36] Mary: right.

[00:11:37] Lisa: Exactly. Yeah. Oh yeah. I am back into reading fiction like my Kindle. I've got all kinds of stuff on it. And like, it's like my go to bed thing now. Like I read some of my fiction books and on the weekends I'm reading and it's, it's really good because it gets me off my phone, you know, it gets me at a doom scrolling.

[00:11:56] Lisa: It gets me away from thinking about work. And sometimes, you know, these fiction stories do give you the, it's like it gives your brain the rest. It needs to be able to think about things differently.

[00:12:07] Mary: Totally. I do it too at night because I can't read business books at night. I can't read. No,

[00:12:12] Lisa: I can't either.

[00:12:12] Lisa: I'll be awake all night.

[00:12:13] Mary: I'm like all excited. I'll be planning a whole new program by 1:00 AM

[00:12:17] Lisa: Yes, me too.

[00:12:18] Mary: And then I find too, like we're studies of human behavior and fiction allows you to see human behavior in different contexts at different times and different challenges and stuff like that. So anyway, three.

[00:12:28] Mary: Cheers for fiction.

[00:12:29] Lisa: Yes.

[00:12:30] Mary: So Lisa, we are here to understand the moments in your life that changed everything for you, that made you into who you are and what you believe in the world. Now I realize that there are thousands of micro moments that all led to this moment, but it's often very helpful to look in the rear view mirror and say which things were pivotal.

[00:12:52] Mary: And next week you might change or choose a whole different three things. But I'm curious to see those pivotal moments for you.

[00:13:02] Lisa: All right. Where should I start? You want me to

[00:13:05] Mary: start the

[00:13:05] Lisa: youngest?

[00:13:05] Mary: Well, I like to start ki yeah, kind of youngest and then make your way here and then through that we'll learn a little bit more about you, your life and what you're doing and all of those things.

[00:13:13] Mary: Right.

[00:13:14] Lisa: Okay.

[00:13:15] Mary: Yeah,

[00:13:15] Lisa: so I think the youngest defining moment that really shaped my, I guess, resilience and, and maybe determination was the summer between grade six and grade seven. And I had all kinds of stomach issues. Turns out I have Crohn's disease, but I hadn't been diagnosed at the time and a doctor had put me on prednisone and I had gone from being a tall 80 pound skinny kid to 120 pounds in a couple months.

[00:13:52] Lisa: So I gained 50% of my body weight and when they started to take me off the prednisone, they took me off of the prednisone too quickly and I hemorrhaged from my bowel.

[00:14:05] Mary: Oh my gosh.

[00:14:07] Lisa: And I hemorrhaged really, really, really badly. Uh, to the point that when I was eventually brought into the ICU in Peterborough, the only place they could find a pulse was in my ankle.

[00:14:21] Lisa: And I had to be transfused several times. I spent a week in ICU that day, or those couple of days 'cause it started one day. And then I would, you know, I lived in Halliburton, so I'd go to the doctor's office and they kind of make me hang out in the doctor's office. 'cause every time I went to the bathroom, they wanted to, and it sounds gross.

[00:14:39] Lisa: Measure how much blood I lost and yada yada. And so partway through the second day, the doctor called my mom and said she needs to go to Peterborough, to the hospital. My mom was at work, single mom, and she worked at a place called Wilberforce Veneer. And she, the doctor said, we can do a couple of things.

[00:15:00] Lisa: One, we can put her in an ambulance right now and send her, or we can wait until you get here and you can take her to Peterborough. And my mom went to her boss, I forget his name. It was like, I don't know ya, or something, like some name that's not a common name to me. And she told him what was going on and that she needed to leave work.

[00:15:27] Lisa: And he said, you've got your problems and I've got mine and I need you here until the end of the day.

[00:15:34] Mary: No.

[00:15:34] Lisa: So he wouldn't let my mom leave work until like five o'clock that day. And my mom, you know, she's a single mom. She, my dad paid her $140 a month in alimony, so not a lot of money, and she could not afford to lose her job where she worked.

[00:15:56] Lisa: She had one of the best paying jobs that she could get where she lived. And so she stayed and she finally came and got me. My aunt was in the car with me. My aunt was an RNA, and they drove to Peterborough and brought me to the hospital where, you know, I was in ICU for a week. I ended up spending over a month in the hospital while I healed.

[00:16:22] Lisa: But my defining moment in that time was someone else will never, ever, ever decide for me when I can or cannot be there for the people that I love most.

[00:16:37] Mary: Hmm.

[00:16:38] Lisa: I'll never let another person make that choice for me, the way that he forced my mom to make the, that choice that day. And so, one of the reasons that I think I'm so a passionate about helping business owners and BI, I think I'm pretty good to my team.

[00:16:56] Lisa: Like if my team has an issue, like if somebody's kid's sick or whatever, like I'm like go, like there's no questions asked, right? Is because I always remember what that was like. And I know that small business owners work really, really hard. And when people work hard, whether they're an employee or whether they're a business owner, and shit hits the fan, they deserve the grace of being able to show up for what matters most in life to them because they're showing up and spending most of their life with you.

[00:17:28] Lisa: And so. That thing has always been in the back of my head when I worked for corporate, when I was a store manager, when I was an area manager, a regional manager, a retail store owner. And I remember people used to get so upset, oh, so and so called in sick, we're gonna write them up. I'm like, no, you're not.

[00:17:46] Lisa: I'm like, because you don't write people up for being sick and you don't write people up because their kid's sick. Because if, if you're prepared to write them up because of that, then there's something else going on with their performance that you need to deal with. Not that mm-hmm. Deal with what the real performance issue is.

[00:18:04] Lisa: Don't deal with the fact that they're sick or they need to be with their kid. Right. And so I think that, that situation young in my life, and, I mean, it's pretty scary. I think I was like 12 years old and here I am in ICU in a, in a city hospital by myself and my mom can't be there all the time 'cause her boss is an asshole and won't let her have time off from work.

[00:18:25] Lisa: Just made me. Have more, uh, a compassion for people when they're going through a tough time. And b, it made me more determined than ever to never be in a situation where I was beholden to someone else.

[00:18:42] Mary: Holy smokes. That's big. That, uh, sense of or need for independence. Mm-hmm. I was gonna ask you how old you were because you're old enough to understand the tough situation your mom was in.

[00:18:53] Lisa: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:54] Mary: You know, it's 'cause like when you're super young, you, things are happening around you, but you don't understand the context.

[00:18:59] Lisa: Yeah.

[00:18:59] Mary: And for your poor mom to be worried about you, but also have her livelihood, like she didn't really have a choice.

[00:19:05] Lisa: Oh yeah. And it gets better though. My pediatrician at the time, because they hadn't diagnosed me, told my poor mom that my hemorrhaging was likely the result of stress.

[00:19:17] Lisa: So my poor mother is a basket case 'cause she thinks I am the worst parent in the world. My child has so much stress that she is hemorrhage to hemorrhage to the point of needing to be in ICU.

[00:19:30] Mary: Oh.

[00:19:31] Lisa: And that was back in like I had to be transfused multiple times that week and it was back before they checked blood for all the stuff that they check blood for now and mm-hmm.

[00:19:39] Lisa: I mean that's a whole other story. In my twenties I get the letter, it's like, ah, you need to go get tested for, you know, all this stuff. And that was like super scary. And I was fine, but I mean, I was lucky 'cause lots of people weren't fine. So, you know, it was a terrible, the pressure that my mom was under to not lose her financial independence, not lose her job, but also to be there for her child.

[00:20:06] Lisa: Like it's just a really tough time in her life. And I think that's why today I want to do so much to take care of her because I know how hard it was. For her as a single parent taking care of me.

[00:20:19] Mary: And it makes me think about, you know, my dad always says that the next generation is better than the one before.

[00:20:25] Mary: Like it's the job of this generation to help the next generation be better, stronger, whatever that is. And I think about that gen our generation, our parents and what they went through and the different stressors and like even the sense of no safety net. My parents grew up. Like I, I grew up in the us I now live in Canada, different different cultures and all of that.

[00:20:43] Mary: Mm-hmm. But you know, the generation before us didn't have the same sense of safety and security of, we've got more material wealth generally in North America than we had back then. So like living kind of on the ropes. And so then I go back to, we also didn't understand at that time that smoking was bad for us.

[00:21:04] Lisa: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:04] Mary: And think like those and, and maybe drinking and things like that. We didn't have as much awareness. And so these habits. That people started to deal with and cope with and whatever. I mean, they started a long time ago and they come from a completely different context. Yeah. So when we judge our parents for smoking or whatever, it's like, wait a second, you did not walk in their shoes.

[00:21:24] Mary: You do not know what it was like.

[00:21:26] Lisa: Right.

[00:21:26] Mary: To

[00:21:26] Mary: do that then, or whatever.

[00:21:28] Lisa: Yeah, a hundred percent. A hundred percent.

[00:21:30] Mary: Yeah.

[00:21:30] Lisa: I agree.

[00:21:30] Mary: Yeah. What is it, what was that experience like for you from a health perspective? Like that's a pretty traumatic moment, health wise for somebody at 12 to all of a sudden be at that kind of edge of life, you know?

[00:21:47] Lisa: Well, it was, I mean, it was scary. I was just, Mary, I was really sick. I was in, when I would eat, I would be curled up on the floor in pain because I would have so much pain in my stomach whenever I, I ate food and, you know, the medication, I gained 40 pounds, so I had stretch marks on my legs and my backside because I just gained so much weight, so rapidly.

[00:22:12] Lisa: And so then that created insecurity and shame. You know, I was athletic before, but then it was like, there's no way I'm putting shorts on in the gym so people click can see these ugly red welts on my legs. Like, I'm just not gonna do it. So I stopped playing sports because I didn't want kids to, you know, kids are cruel, right?

[00:22:31] Lisa: Of course, the rumor was that I was pregnant because I gained so much weight. I mean, we all know that wasn't true, but, you know, kids are just mean that way when they don't understand. So it was, it was a hard season of life. I mean, things got better for me when I got into high school, but at that particular stage, it wasn't easy.

[00:22:50] Mary: You know, adolescence is the worst. The, you know, the grade six, grade seven, grade eight. Like, everybody's trying to figure out who they are. And so their kids are the worst kind of humans I think, at that age. And so if you have anything that stands out, I was in New Jersey in grade six, Minnesota, grade seven Washington state for the eighth grade and then grade nine, completely different school, completely different house.

[00:23:12] Mary: So it was, I might as well have moved to the moon. And I think about that time and when anything was different, odd stands out. Mm-hmm. You get called out for it. 'cause everybody would rather someone else get, I don't know, roasted over the coals so they didn't have to. Yeah. That's so brutal. Yeah.

[00:23:28] Lisa: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:29] Mary: So, okay. That's a huge thing, major in independence and making space for people to be able to do the things that matter to them.

[00:23:37] Lisa: Yeah. I think just, you know, being more empathetic to what people have going on.

[00:23:41] Mary: Mm-hmm. And independence. I mean, I don't know. I mean, it seems like for me, I have a really strong streak of independence too, that like mm-hmm.

[00:23:49] Mary: No one's gonna tell me what I'm gonna work on and how I'm gonna do things. And feel like you have. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:23:56] Lisa: Yeah.

[00:23:56] Mary: Yeah.

[00:23:56] Lisa: I have that too. I have that gene

[00:24:00] Mary: and I love it. I love it. Okay. So what's the second, what's the second moment in time?

[00:24:05] Lisa: The second moment in time was, and I write about this in my first book, pilot to Profit, uh, was when my husband and I, we were, we weren't married then we started dating and I lived in an apartment.

[00:24:22] Lisa: And in my early twenties, I was really bad with money. I, I mean, anybody that would give me a credit card I took, and if I could run that credit card up, it was like, how fast can I go? Right? So I had, refinanced consumer debt a bunch of times I owed my dad money for, you know, loaning me money to pay things off and I was just irresponsible with money.

[00:24:43] Lisa: Again, I, I grew up in a, a home where you just charge things. I didn't understand then how much charging something actually costs when you pay the minimum amount due. And so my husband and I started dating and then we decided that we wanted to move in together and he did not want to rent. He wanted to buy a home and I mean.

[00:25:12] Lisa: I'm living like overdraft to overdraft, not paycheck to paycheck. Overdraft, overdraft. I may or may not have had my phone line cut off once or twice because I was like trying to, you know, take from Peter to pay Paul, so to speak. And Paul's actually my husband's name. And so, he on the other hand had this great job at, you know, the gas company at the time, and he had a side hustle where he taught scuba diving and worked at a dive shop.

[00:25:39] Lisa: And he was doing really well financially. And you know, I'm actually six months older than him and so we, like, I have no money to put towards a down payment on a house. Like I just can't do it. But he did have money for a down payment, so we ended up moving in with his mom for six months while our home was being built.

[00:26:04] Lisa: And I remember saying to him. I will sign papers that say that if anything happens and we don't stay together, that whatever, like the, the down payment, like you own this house. I, it wasn't me, it was you that made it so that we could buy this house together. And he just looked at me, he's like, don't be a loser.

[00:26:35] Lisa: He is like, you, you're not gonna do that. And I mean, here we are 30 years later and several, like 20 houses later, I think we're still together. But that changed me in a really profound way because I didn't think that I would ever be able to afford to buy a house and. I don't know that I actually believed that I could ever be responsible with money because up until that age, like I was 26 at the time, I'd been so bad with money and because he trusted me, I changed, I got a new job.

[00:27:15] Lisa: And when I got a new job, I negotiated a 50% increase in pay.

[00:27:20] Mary: Wow.

[00:27:20] Lisa: And before I got my first paycheck, I went to the bank and I made arrangements for them to take everything extra that I was making to pay off my debt. I paid off my debt, I think two years early, and I've never lived in overdraft again. I don't carry a balance on my credit card.

[00:27:41] Lisa: I literally have no dad. And you know, together we, you know, we bought and sold houses and we had this goal of being mortgage free by the time we were 40. And we were able to do that. We were able to actually have a home in Canada and a home in the US that was paid for. And I don't think I would have become that person if he hadn't trusted me.

[00:28:05] Lisa: And because somebody that I looked up to so much and that meant so much to me, trusted me with something that I knew deep down inside that I had been irresponsible with, I was determined to change because I didn't want to let him down and I didn't want to ruin this opportunity that, you know, he was providing for us in our future.

[00:28:29] Lisa: And so that was a big defining moment for me. And I think, you know, I. I've worked with a lot of people that have money shame. They've got a lot of debt. They haven't done their taxes. They live paycheck to paycheck or overdraft to overdraft. They, you know, it happens. And so I, I spend a lot of time trying to coach and guide and mentor people around better money habits and I, I know it is possible for people to change when it comes to money because in the flip of a dime, I was able to change just based on the faith that he had in me.

[00:29:05] Mary: I love this story so much. It makes me think of the power of expectations because you had. A view of the world and had, and had a story about your own limitations. And like if you know left, left your own devices, you probably would've kept on that path. Meet someone you respect, who sets a new standard and believes that you can live up to that standard both what you wanted too.

[00:29:29] Mary: Mm-hmm. And all of a sudden your expectation of yourself changed.

[00:29:32] Lisa: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:33] Mary: And then you live into that. Yeah. And it's so funny, like the stories we have about ourselves where we're, you know, and we get this in families too. Like you grow up with, well we're not good with money. Right? We're paycheck to paycheck people.

[00:29:46] Mary: I just put it, yeah. We create labels for ourself. Mm-hmm. And we're creating these limitations, which are kind of a safe zone too. It's kind of like, well, I get to live here, I know what that's like, and if I don't create an expectation for myself, I have no accountability. To live up to it.

[00:30:01] Lisa: Mm-hmm. I think it also speaks to the people that you surround yourself with, shape who you become.

[00:30:07] Lisa: Mm-hmm. So if you are surrounding yourself with people that have bad habits, you are going to adopt those bad habits. I read something recently, I forget where I read it. I think it might have been in the Farham Street newsletter. People are not rational. People are rationalizers.

[00:30:23] Mary: Yes, we are.

[00:30:25] Lisa: So we rationalize that it's okay because we're around somebody else that's like that.

[00:30:29] Lisa: And the same thing happens when we surround ourselves with people that have really good habits and they do good things, is we rationalize that we can be that way too. And so, whether it's life or business, I think, you know, Jim Rohn said the people you spend the five time, the the five people you spend the most time with are the most important.

[00:30:49] Lisa: And I think that that's true. I really do.

[00:30:52] Mary: I do too. You're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. Mm-hmm. I think about that as, you know, with my kids and, you know, over the course of their life and choosing friends. And you don't want people to be like overly strategic about their choices.

[00:31:05] Mary: You want it to feel good too and be natural. But I remember different times in my life, like the first time I started hanging around with somebody who was a runner, I was like, oh, you're crazy. You run half marathons. Who does that?

[00:31:15] Lisa: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:16] Mary: And then I start running, I'm like, huh, maybe I could run a half marathon.

[00:31:20] Mary: Mm-hmm. And then you do that and then you're like, oh, I could work out, lift weights, whatever. Yeah. I could start a business, you know? And then it's so true. The flip side of that is if you stayed in your same hometown with the same people that you spent time with when you were 15, and if their horizons haven't shifted at all either to yours,

[00:31:39] Lisa: a hundred percent.

[00:31:40] Mary: So then what do you do nowadays? 'cause as life goes on and things, you know, you, and, I mean, this is a question probably as selfishly for me because I feel this, you meet people. Mm-hmm. You build your network, you, your, your life expands and the number of people and connections expand. How do you manage that choosing to be around the people who lift you up and challenge you, and that there's just not, there's not always room for everybody.

[00:32:09] Lisa: There's not, no. So I, there's this one thing that I'm really good at, and that is cutting the cord on energy vampires. Mm-hmm. So I pay attention to how I feel when I'm around people. Do I feel energized and good because I spent time with this person? Or do I feel depleted and not good? And if I notice a trend.

[00:32:34] Lisa: Where I'm always around somebody that I feel depleted and not good, then I start to distance myself from that person. I don't, you know, have a confrontation and say, I'm not gonna hang out with you anymore. I just, you know, I'm not so quick to reach, respond to a text message or a phone call. And, you know, if they wanna get together for lunch or dinner i's, I'm fortunate I have plans maybe next month.

[00:32:54] Lisa: Or, you know, like I, I just kind of in a nice way, because I know that being around them isn't good for me. And that's not to say that I, I'm not there for people when things go wrong. 'cause you know, I'm talking about trend. I'm talking about every time you're with somebody, you're like, oh my God, what a Debbie downer.

[00:33:16] Lisa: Right? It's not, it's not because somebody just, you know, went through something bad and they're in a bad spot. So I'm, I'm very conscious of that and I'm always looking for rooms where I can meet new people that. Challenge my thinking. So we went to Coach Khan, that's where we met. Yeah. And I think, were you in Nick Ton's session where he had the songwriters and they, they did some singing in the session?

[00:33:45] Lisa: No. Oh my God, it was so good. So I met

[00:33:48] Mary: what we

[00:33:48] Mary: went to instead.

[00:33:49] Lisa: Yeah. I don't know. I think you were across the hall. But anyways, yeah, I met Nick years ago when I spoke at an Ariel Ford event, and I hadn't seen him in a long time. And so after his session, I kind of chatted with him in the hallway and Ada, well, a couple weeks later I went to another event and he was there and started just chatting with him about, you know, what's new?

[00:34:08] Lisa: It's been so long. I mean, it's, we since we connected and blah, blah, blah. And so he is talking about his business and then he starts talking to me about this you know, bourbon company that he is opening with Chris Voice. Remember we saw Chris voice?

[00:34:22] Mary: Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do

[00:34:23] Lisa: you remember me getting the picture going after Chris and telling Chris the story about the wrong Chris?

[00:34:28] Lisa: Anyways. So he's telling me this story about him and this other guy named Roy and Chris and how they're starting a bourbon company. And you know, wouldn't it be, he did this documentary with Chris and Chris likes bourbon and he, it's like, wouldn't it be cool if we started a bourbon company? And we called it the Difference.

[00:34:44] Lisa: And uh, we made it a business bourbon. And you know, you can't buy it in stores. You have to be like a shareholder to get a share of the barrel. And I said, that sounds really cool. Are you looking for investors?

[00:34:56] Mary: Ah.

[00:34:56] Lisa: And he said, yeah, actually we are, we're doing, you know, we're doing one round 25 investors X amount of money.

[00:35:04] Lisa: And uh, I said, do you have a pitch deck and you send it to me? So he sends me the pitch deck and I go through the pitch deck with my husband and I'm like, I think this is a good opportunity for us. And he, you know, he was a little bit, I would say I'm a little bit. I embrace risk a bit more than he did.

[00:35:20] Lisa: And at first he was like, I don't know. I'm not sure if we should do it. Blah, blah, blah. And then we were having a conversation about something and he asked me a question and I said, the one thing that I regret that I didn't do earlier in my career as an entrepreneur is invest in being in the right rooms with the right people.

[00:35:37] Lisa: Because I think that if I had started investing in masterminds and programs like Strategic Coach, et cetera, I would've moved faster sooner because of the relationships and network that I built. And the next morning he woke up and he said to me, so I've been thinking about that bourbon company. I think we should do it.

[00:35:56] Lisa: And I'm like, why? He goes, well, I was thinking about what you said. And he's like, it is a great opportunity for us to be in a different room with different people. And so we did it. And, and, and I think that it's just looking for those opportunities where you can expand your network and you can build relationships.

[00:36:13] Lisa: And I will tell you. When I'm in that room, I feel like I'm, I'm the small fish in a pond with a bunch of big fish. You know, I talk to some of these people about their business and what they do in their business, and I'm like, I, I struggle not to be intimidated because they're so successful. I, I, I want to be inspired and I am inspired, but mm-hmm.

[00:36:34] Lisa: I am totally in the right room to stretch my thinking.

[00:36:39] Mary: Well, that's the thing. I mean, it'd be so easy to shy away from it 'cause it's uncomfortable, but that's the right room to be in. That's the room that helps you like challenge and even, even your own perception of yourself, like someone else in that room is like, oh my gosh, look what Lisa's done in her business.

[00:36:52] Mary: There's, and the way that she approaches things, I don't do it that way. Whatever. Right. We don't, and you know, as women, I think we can tend to do a little bit more of that. Yes. Self-talk and Yeah. There's that study that says women, women will apply for jobs. They have like 80 or 90% of the qualifications for, and men will apply, apply for jobs.

[00:37:11] Mary: Dave, guys

[00:37:11] Lisa: 50. Yeah. 20. Yeah.

[00:37:13] Mary: 20. Something

[00:37:14] Lisa: really

[00:37:14] Mary: ridiculous.

[00:37:15] Lisa: Enough. Well, and

[00:37:15] Mary: yeah,

[00:37:16] Lisa: and I am bringing value to that room. I've already had, you know, three different people reach out to me and ask me about some of the work that I'm doing with AI and marketing, which is great. So I, I am also realizing that I can hold my own in these rooms.

[00:37:29] Lisa: Mm-hmm. And I can also learn. And I think that you just, you know, relationships are so important and. Making sure if you, if you really wanna upgrade your network, you have to invest in your network. You have to invest in getting into different communities, different rooms, and meeting different people. And then you also have to discern when the time has come to get out of them.

[00:37:54] Lisa: You know, I am in something else right now that I've been in for a while and I'm like 90% sure that I'm not going to renew going into next year because, and it's not coach by the way, something else.

[00:38:06] Mary: Well, of

[00:38:07] Mary: course I was gonna ask you what it was, but I was like, maybe you  don't wanna say

[00:38:09] Lisa: I'm not gonna say what it is because I don't wanna, I don't wanna, I don't wanna publicly say it, but 'cause I just have felt like the last.

[00:38:15] Lisa: Like probably the last year and a bit, every time I go, I'm disappointed with how things have been run, but the community that I've interacted with there is fantastic. So I think it's, yeah, we also have to learn when something has served its purpose and when it's time to move on. Because especially if you're paying to be part of these things, right?

[00:38:38] Lisa: If you're paying 10 to $25,000 a year and you're going to three to four events a year, it's not just the 10 to 25,000. It's the money that you're investing in airfare and hotel and meals. And so by the time you add all of that, it's a significant investment. You have to ask yourself, am I getting the right ROI from all the groups that I'm in?

[00:38:56] Lisa: And we all have to have different measurements of success from ROI, right? For me. One of my strengths is top strengths is I'm a learner, so I always wanna feel like I learned something. I wanna feel like I walked away with fresh, new ideas and that I'm learning, you know, another ROI for me is building my network.

[00:39:15] Lisa: Am I building relationships with people that feel really good? Another one is, am I, am I getting referrals? And it's not that I'm going in expecting referrals out of the gate, but does it naturally do these relationships naturally lend themselves to either us doing business with each other or you feeling like you can trust someone, you know, with the services that I offer and vice versa.

[00:39:41] Lisa: So I'm always kind looking at those things and saying like, how is it, how's it working for me? Mm-hmm. 'cause it's not just the financial investment, it's also an investment of time. Right.

[00:39:50] Mary: I was just gonna say that, that tends to be my bigger challenge these days is, you know, you put time and energy into.

[00:39:59] Mary: Learning mm-hmm. Into networking, into building relationships. And then there's this little thing over here called the business.

[00:40:04] Lisa: Yeah.

[00:40:05] Mary: That you're still, you know, and you know, for me, my business is younger than yours, but they still cultivating and growing and feeding and all of that. And so all of those things matter, and it just makes the decision, the discernment, like all those categories matter.

[00:40:19] Mary: Mm-hmm. And then the discernment within each category about which relationship delivers. And not always, like, I love what you said about how it's not always about the financial return or the referral or, you know, the lead, that kind of thing. But it's, it's the weighing of what makes the most sense, given what I'm trying to do now.

[00:40:39] Mary: And then

[00:40:40] Lisa: Yeah.

[00:40:41] Mary: The, the other lens, which is, and then on the weekends, I just wanna go for a hike with a friend and it doesn't have anything to do with the strategic part of my brain and all that. Right.

[00:40:51] Lisa: Right.

[00:40:52] Mary: And so it's a. Yeah. I find that a continual challenge, but what a great choice in husband.

[00:40:59] Lisa: I know.

[00:40:59] Lisa: I know. He's a keeper,

[00:41:00] Mary: right?

[00:41:01] Lisa: Yeah,

[00:41:01] Mary: yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a great story. You know, it's funny, people will often say, when I ask, 'cause when I work with leaders, the first thing I try to do is really understand who they are. Because who they are is what is, you know, drives what they do and what they're passionate about and all of that.

[00:41:17] Mary: Mm-hmm. And so oftentimes like, oh, you know, when I got married, and yes, that is true. You know, choosing your life partner as a monumental change. But I love how you took a moment in your relationship because there's probably hundreds of things mm-hmm. About your husband and your relationship together. But you took that moment from getting married or choosing a partner.

[00:41:40] Mary: It wasn't just choosing the partner. It was, here's a tangible example of how it changed me, which I think is really really insightful. Yeah.

[00:41:48] Lisa: Yeah. And it's like, I feel like we have a true partnership, like. It's, you know, it's, it's was a great decision and, uh, yeah, I'm blessed.

[00:41:58] Mary: What do you think? Because, you know, uh, my husband and I have been together for 27 years, married for 22.

[00:42:04] Mary: We just had our anniversary. I was like, we didn't do anything for her. I was just like, is it now? It was just, uh, last month anyway. What do you attribute a healthy 30 year partnership to?

[00:42:15] Lisa: Just happening? Just trying to change each other. Not trying to change each other. You know, I love to read. Paul doesn't really like reading.

[00:42:24] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:24] Lisa: I don't try to force him to read books. Not, not being supportive of each other and not trying to change each other, I think is one thing. The second thing I would say is never put your partner down in front of other people.

[00:42:39] Mary: Ugh. Yes.

[00:42:40] Lisa: I see people do that all the time, and I'm like, oh my God, if you did that to me in front of friends, I.

[00:42:45] Lisa: Die. So I think we're just, we always treat each other. I think respect is the thing. Like we just treat each other with respect. Yeah. And then, you know, being there for each other, like back to the story about me being sick as a kid. Like when, when something's going on, recognize that you need to show up for your partner and be there.

[00:43:06] Lisa: And, uh, I think those are, those are some of the things that for me have been important.

[00:43:15] Mary: Yeah, I love that.

[00:43:16] Lisa: But not trying to change people. Like, I think that there are so many people that are in relationships and there are parts, you don't have to like all parts of your partner. Like there's there, you know, or you don't have to be the same for all parts of your partner.

[00:43:31] Lisa: And so I think like, you know, and I, I mean maybe that sounds funny 'cause I, I, I mean I really like my husband. I'm, now, I'm trying to think what don't I like about him? There's nothing but I think it's when you are in a relationship and there's something that somebody does and you're trying to change who they are.

[00:43:49] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[00:43:50] Lisa: You know, if you're married to somebody who I don't know, as a narcissist for example, like you can't change that. That is who they are. And I think as women, a lot of times we try to fix people. And so I would say be in a, a healthy relationship where you don't feel the need to fix someone.

[00:44:10] Mary: You know?

[00:44:11] Mary: I, yeah. That resonates for me too, like my husband and I, and I don't know. Did you and Paul get together when you were young? Like, I was 23 when I met my husband. We married at 28.

[00:44:20] Lisa: I met Paul when I was in grade 13. We dated other people that were friends and then we ran into each other. At a bar when we were 25 and we started dating at 25.

[00:44:34] Mary: Okay. So it's still fairly young.

[00:44:35] Lisa: We got married in at 31.

[00:44:38] Mary: Okay. Yeah. So I was 2023 and then we got married at when I was 28 and he was 30. So we were pretty young. Mm-hmm. And still kind of figuring out life and, you know, priorities and all those things. So we figured them out together. Like when you made the comment about like the money situation, we were both like working in restaurants and it was like, do you have money for the cable bill?

[00:44:58] Mary: And like literally you'd put cash in the bank machine so that you could pay the bill. Yeah. Oh, so crazy. But then as you grow and develop, like 25 to 50 is a big stretch of time and so much happens in, in life. And so I remember different moments where I had pivot points where I'd get like super into something.

[00:45:16] Mary: Like I, I went down, I studied positive psychology for a period of time, and I was all into mindset shifting and, you know, gratitude practice and whatever. And I remember feeling a real pull to bring him into it with me. And it's just like, it, he just, that's not his thing,

[00:45:34] Lisa: right?

[00:45:34] Mary: It's not his thing. And so I went through this whole process of, well, why isn't he interested in this?

[00:45:38] Mary: 'cause this is the way life should be and this is whatever. And then I was like, oh, that's not, this is my journey, not his right. And it's totally okay for us to be. Different. Mm-hmm. And on different paths. And, uh, I agree with you about the, I, what, what I would say is about kindness. Like we disagree and we have moments where I'm on a completely different page than he is, but we always have kindness

[00:46:03] Lisa: Yeah.

[00:46:03] Mary: As an ingredient. Like, we're not aiming to hurt each other, we're actually aiming to come to a common understanding. Mm-hmm. And so that part where, you know, you go to dinner parties and somebody, they're bickering in front of you and they're undermining each other and all that. That's a, that's a challenging environment.

[00:46:22] Lisa: Yeah.

[00:46:22] Mary: To

[00:46:22] Mary: be

[00:46:22] Lisa: For

[00:46:22] Lisa: sure. For sure.

[00:46:24] Mary: Yeah.

[00:46:24] Lisa: I agree.

[00:46:25] Mary: Yeah. Well, thanks for that. Way to go Paul. He should listen to this.

[00:46:28] Lisa: I know. Well, he's, he's in the other room. He is probably listening.

[00:46:32] Mary: He is listening right now. All right. Let's bring it home. What's your last moment?

[00:46:39] Lisa: So, my last moment was, uh, in my corporate life and.

[00:46:46] Lisa: When I worked for Clat, uh, CLAT had, they were growing and I was part of this core team that, uh, was building 30, opening 31 stores in a six month period. And the following year, uh, the division kind of grew up and now we had a VP and a director and like all the official people. And so, uh, I reported into this woman named Jackie Fu and I had a manager, a store manager on my team who was underperforming.

[00:47:16] Lisa: And I needed to deliver a written warning to this woman. And so I'm sitting in a room delivering this written warning, and Jackie's with me. She's sitting beside me 'cause she wants to see, of course, how am I delivering this written warning? And she's got the written warning on, you know, piece of paper, like in her, her, her notebook.

[00:47:40] Lisa: And she's got this red pen. And I'm delivering the written warning. And I see her writing stuff with this red pen. And like I started to feel like heat on the back of my neck. And I started to feel like, oh my God, I am doing everything wrong here. Like I am gonna get it. Like she's taking so many notes, like, I can't believe I'm bombing this so bad.

[00:48:03] Lisa: So everything goes along. I finish up the manager leaves and now it's the two of us. And she sat there and she proceeded to give me positive feedback. Every single thing that she wrote down was something positive. You did this really well and I liked when you did this, and when she did this and you did this, this was really good and this is why, and blah, blah, blah.

[00:48:26] Lisa: And it was the first time in my life that I ever had a boss watch what I did and just give me positive feedback instead of criticism. And so that was a defining moment for me because it really built my confidence. It challenged the story in my mind that feedback is always gonna be about what you do wrong.

[00:48:55] Lisa: You know, if you think about your school teacher marking up your paper, it's, you know, marked up, they mark up all the stuff you did wrong. They don't circle all the stuff and say, good job. This was excellent.

[00:49:03] Mary: Also,

[00:49:03] Mary: the

[00:49:03] Mary: red pen.

[00:49:04] Lisa: The red pen,

[00:49:05] Mary: it

[00:49:05] Mary: was a red

[00:49:06] Lisa: pen. A red fricking pen.

[00:49:08] Mary: Yeah.

[00:49:08] Lisa: And, but it also shaped who I am.

[00:49:12] Lisa: As a leader because it made me want to create that experience for other people. And so I feel like one of the things that I'm, I'm pretty good at most of the time, not all the time, 'cause of course as entrepreneurs we're built to see and fix problems, but most of the time I am always on the lookout for what people are doing well.

[00:49:37] Lisa: And I try really hard to fill people up with positive feedback as much as I can. And I think I am, I'm really like, I have a great big, huge bin on the shelf. You see that, that wicker bin, well that one of those wicker bins is full of, uh, note cards. And so I am a note card writer. Like I had a call with somebody from Strategic Coach yesterday and they were talking to me about.

[00:50:05] Lisa: The energy and enthusiasm that they saw in me at the last session talking about all the AI work that I'm doing and how impressed they were and how by seeing the passion that I had for what I was talking about come through in one of our sessions, it made them literally go through every single offer that I have on my website.

[00:50:23] Lisa: And they're now interested in, you know, going through my next AI driven search. A, sorry, ai, AI driven marketing made easy, so many terms, and they wanna do like a one-on-one session with me as well. And so I literally, I wrote them a note to thank them for what they saw and for the feedback that they gave me and why it mattered to me.

[00:50:46] Lisa: Because mm-hmm. I want them to feel seen for what they did. And so that's an example of somebody that doesn't work for me, but. I have cards that I send in the mail to my team all the time to acknowledge them for things that they do well. Like I make a habit of writing stuff down on a piece of paper like card, and I'll write the person's name and a couple of words of what they did.

[00:51:06] Lisa: And then, you know, at the end of the week, I will hand write a bunch of cards to send out to people to acknowledge them for things that they do well. And so I think that the reason that I am good at that is because of that experience that happened to me. And it just made me realize that you can give people feedback and you can choose whether it's all criticism or whether you're trying to actually build confidence by telling them the things that they did.

[00:51:35] Lisa: Well, it doesn't mean that I don't give constructive feedback or criticize when criticism is due, but it means that I look for the good as much as I look for the bad.

[00:51:44] Mary: Yeah. Well, good for noticing that reaction too, that it happened, you noticed it and you turned it into something.

[00:51:53] Lisa: Yeah, and it, and it was a huge shift.

[00:51:56] Lisa: And you know, later on I went to this event with her and it was a leadership event. And we were sitting in a circle and we had to write down on a piece of paper the things that we were good at, like the skills that we had that made us good at our job. So I start writing all this stuff down, and all of a sudden I felt like everybody was watching me.

[00:52:16] Lisa: And I looked around the room at this circle and nobody else was writing stuff down. And I realized that the reason that I could write stuff down is because she had been telling me, she had been pouring all of that into me. And so, again, if we talk about women, so many women don't think they're good enough yet.

[00:52:40] Lisa: What if we started telling them how good they already are? What kind of impact could we make in their careers and their self-confidence and their self-esteem and their belief in their abilities. So, mm-hmm. I think that, you know, it started out with the red pen, but then over time it was the, it was the consistency of receiving skill-based feedback.

[00:53:02] Lisa: You know, I wanted to go to a leadership conference one time and she said no, she wouldn't let me go. I think it was like a $2,500 investment. And I was really mad 'cause I really wanted to go to this leadership thing. And she's like, no. She said, it's not about the money. She's like, you're already a nine outta 10.

[00:53:21] Lisa: She said, go find me something. You're a four outta 10 or a five outta 10, and the conference is gonna stretch you to be, you know, a seven or an eight outta 10, but you're gonna go to this leadership thing and you're gonna go from a nine to like a 9.2. You're not gonna get the stretch. I want you to get the stretch.

[00:53:37] Lisa: And that's so cool. I appreciate that. I appreciate the leadership that she modeled.

[00:53:43] Mary: Absolutely. And it made me think as you're telling me that story, how many people she would've affected in her career, who then

[00:53:51] Lisa: mm-hmm.

[00:53:51] Mary: Took this away. Like the whole pay it forward

[00:53:53] Lisa: Yeah.

[00:53:54] Mary: Idea. And, you know, well, she

[00:53:55] Lisa: impacted me and I impacted so many people because of That's what I mean.

[00:53:59] Lisa: Not even just the direct impact to her.

[00:54:02] Mary: Absolutely. Yeah. So you are now an agent in the world that goes and looks for positive feedback. You're one that wants to see and recognize that, 'cause you know how it feels, right? So how many people have you affected and how many people are they affecting when you think about mm-hmm.

[00:54:16] Mary: Like the whole idea of paying it forward. It, it's, there's truth in it and, right. You know, my mom would always say the fish rots from the head. Uh, you know, when we talk about leadership and if there's something wrong in an organization, you know where to look for it. Well, the same thing would be true in, in reverse.

[00:54:29] Mary: Right. The inverse of that is true, right? Like, yeah. So I just, I, it'd be interesting if you could gather all the people who were affected by her. Oh, in life, what they would say, you know,

[00:54:40] Lisa: there would be thousands.

[00:54:40] Mary: Where is she now? Do you stay in touch or, uh,

[00:54:43] Lisa: yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, that's great.

[00:54:45] Lisa: We're actually working on some projects together for business.

[00:54:48] Mary: No way.

[00:54:48] Mary: Oh, how

[00:54:49] Mary: fun is that?

[00:54:49] Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. We've, we have remained good friends for the last 25 years and, uh, she's at a stage in her life now where she's not doing corporate stuff anymore and she's starting kind of her own, uh, her own business and we're actually doing some stuff together right now, so, yeah, it's

[00:55:09] Mary: cool.

[00:55:10] Mary: Oh, I love hearing that. That's beautiful.

[00:55:11] Lisa: Yeah. You know, when you say that, yeah. We still work as well together now as we did back then.

[00:55:16] Mary: Yeah. So, cool. Well, I would love for you, since you're still in touch with her, it'd be really cool to ask her if anybody else has given her this feedback.

[00:55:23] Lisa: She would tell, she probably has received the feedback.

[00:55:28] Lisa: I know she receives feedback from people all the time about her leadership. But she is the type of person who would. Reflect the credit back to me, not her. Do you know what I mean? Like that's just who she is. Totally.

[00:55:42] Mary: I totally get that. Mm-hmm. When you talked about people and their strengths, I don't think we live, we, we don't live in a world that naturally is cultivating strength as a filter.

[00:55:52] Mary: Mm-hmm. Like when you think about, even back in school, we, we look at report cards, it's like, what grade did you do with, like, what class did you do the worst in?

[00:55:59] Lisa: Yeah.

[00:56:00] Mary: And let's work on that as opposed to, you have a natural ability, a love of a passion for continue doubling down on that. And then we know all the research with strength say, you know, organizations that focus on strength, they're like multiples of four and five and six.

[00:56:13] Lisa: Right?

[00:56:14] Mary: We have better than organizations that aren't, but when you ask people what are you really good at? Not many people have done the work to reflect.

[00:56:22] Lisa: But you know why most people don't know? Because people say things like, good job. They don't actually call out the skill, they don't say to somebody, so, Mary, you know, if I was gonna give you feedback, I would say you have exceptional communication skills, whether it's walking into a room and meeting new people for the first time, and striking up a conversation, whether it's taking somebody who's new and making them feel comfortable in the environment, whether it's drawing a story out of someone or it's interviewing in a podcast, you have a way of making other people feel comfortable around you by virtue of how you're able to communicate and get them to actually communicate and interact with you.

[00:57:14] Lisa: Communication is a skill. So like when you give somebody feedback like that and it's tangible, it's sticky. Where when I say, oh, you know what, you're, you're great with people. What's that mean?

[00:57:27] Mary: Totally. Yeah.

[00:57:27] Lisa: What's that mean? It's not specific enough. So I think that when we focus on giving people feedback and we give them the skill and we give them a specific example and we tell them why it matters, then it's like we're injecting it into them versus, you know, touching them with a feather.

[00:57:47] Mary: Yeah. It's not unlike your story of the house you bought with your husband. Right. If you said, I that you married my husband, and that has changed my life. Okay. In one ear now in the other. But when you tell a story about who you were before and a big decision you were making together and how that transformed you, that's that, that's, that's sticky Now it sits with me.

[00:58:08] Mary: Yeah. You know, and I actually have a, I've never met Paul, so I have a diff I have now a more fulsome picture of Paul in, in this whole story, and it's only just one, one story. So That's so true. Now what role. Do people play in identifying their own strengths? You know, like,

[00:58:32] Lisa: that's a great question. I think that, I think it's hard to identify. I mean, you could do all these like Clifton StrengthFinder and Colby and all that personality stuff, but I think, you know, I think your ability to identify your own natural gifts and talents comes from your self-esteem. Because if you have low self-esteem, it's really hard to look in the mirror and see what you're good at.

[00:59:04] Lisa: When your self-esteem is higher, then I think you're able to look at those things a bit more carefully. But I think that we need to be told by other people before we can actually see it in ourselves. Mm-hmm. You know, when I think back to high school, I remember this girl, she said to me, oh my God, you have the most incredible eyes.

[00:59:29] Lisa: I've never seen anything like it. It's like they're three rings of color. And I went home that night and I'm like, my eyes look like, like

[00:59:37] Mary: looking closer now.

[00:59:38] Lisa: And nobody had ever told me that my eyes were unique. Nobody had ever mentioned that it was like the inner and like that there were literally three rings of color in my eyes until I looked in the mirror and I'm like, oh my God, she's right.

[00:59:52] Lisa: Like I, I do have kind of cool eyes like, so I think sometimes we need people to tell us some stuff. Yeah. And then we're able to see the rest. But if you're someone that has been told your whole life that you're dumb and you're not good and you're not capable and that wasn't good enough and this wasn't good enough, then I think it's, it's hard to find what you're great at.

[01:00:17] Lisa: I think. I think the spark. Comes from someone else and then you can start to look at other things. Like I can say I'm a good cook 'cause I eat my own food and I know I'm a good cook, but other people have told me I'm a good cook along the way too. But there are things now that I look at my life, you know, now that I'm in my fifties, that I can see what I'm good at.

[01:00:40] Lisa: But I don't know that I would be able to see as clearly if I hadn't been told some of the things along the way.

[01:00:46] Mary: I think that's a really great, great point. I think about when my son was in grade four, his teacher told him he was a good writer. He's 20 now. He doesn't write ever. Although if he ever did, I'm sure he would be good at it.

[01:00:59] Mary: But he had this like ever since grade four and he'll still talk about it. This one teacher told him he is a good writer and in his mind he might be a journalist one day in studying political science right now, but he doesn't write anything ever. Like if you wanna, he has not practiced this maybe. But that sat his, sat with him.

[01:01:19] Lisa: Yeah.

[01:01:19] Mary: For how long is that? 12 years of his life, like the three quarters of his life that that little bit of feedback has sat with him and, and then it's a, it does, it bolsters. It's like, oh, I might have something that other people don't have. Like, what are those things that make me unique and provide value?

[01:01:37] Mary: Getting feedback from the world makes it really helpful.

[01:01:40] Lisa: Well, perception is reality. And when somebody else shares their perception of you with you, it can very easily become your reality. And depending on your self-esteem and, and belief in yourself, it can, it can benefit you in a good way or a bad way.

[01:01:59] Lisa: Like if somebody came to me and they told me that I was a terrible communicator, I'd look at them and be like, sure. Like I wouldn't, I, I know myself well enough to know that I don't need to take that on. But if I was young and impressionable. And I hadn't been told I was really good at how I communicate over and over again and didn't believe that I'm a good, I'm a direct communicator.

[01:02:27] Lisa: Not everyone likes that I'm direct, but I'm, I know I am direct and I'm clear. If I didn't believe that I have good communication skills, then I might let that stick and own that. Just like your son took on the feedback of being a good writer. And so I think it's important that you know yourself and know what feedback to keep and what feedback to pass on.

[01:02:52] Lisa: I think often, you know, someone once said to me that. Feedback is for the sender, not the receiver. And I think that's really true when unsolicited feedback is for the the sender, not the receiver. And I think that's true when it's constructive feedback. I think that in some cases it's about the sender making themselves be a little bit more, you know?

[01:03:19] Mary: Mm-hmm.

[01:03:20] Lisa: So and so that they can give you that feedback, especially when it's unsolicited. It's different when you want the feedback from somebody, then you want them to be honest with you. But when a stranger comes up to you and gives you unsolicited constructive feedback, or somebody who has no point in giving you unsolicited constructive feedback, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

[01:03:40] Mary: That's so interesting. So feedback is for the sender, not the receiver also. On the positive side, if I were to send a note to somebody, 'cause you've made me think about in this call, this is why I love these conversations. 'cause I'm like, who are those people that believed in me before I believed in myself?

[01:03:55] Mary: Who are those people that showed me what I contributed while I was still young and insecure and all those things? So I was thinking about that. So if I were to send a note to one of them today, it would be for me to feel good because I wanna show them now. I believe that they would receive it and be like, how about that?

[01:04:15] Mary: Never wanted it, never expected it. It's been a decade, whatever. Like I think it would land well, uh, as well. But the feeling, what happens when you do something nice, it's genuine and authentic. There is

[01:04:26] Lisa: a But the intention, the intention is for you to share the impact that they had on your life. Mm-hmm. The intention isn't, I'm gonna make myself feel good by writing some bullshit note.

[01:04:36] Mary: Right.

[01:04:37] Lisa: So

[01:04:37] Lisa: the intention is to. Be of service to them. And yes, it feels good when you are being of service to them in a positive way.

[01:04:47] Mary: Yeah.

[01:04:47] Lisa: But I feel like, you know, sometimes when a stranger

[01:04:52] Mary: mm-hmm.

[01:04:53] Lisa: Somebody who has no, no bearing Yeah. Giving you the constructive feedback does, is like, you have to be strong enough to know when to take it and when to just let it, you know, flow off a duck's back.

[01:05:05] Mary: So you and I were talking just before the podcast, so I was about to, I was speaking at an event last week.

[01:05:10] Lisa: Yeah.

[01:05:10] Mary: And I was just getting, I had just been introduced. Yeah. And before I went up on stage, I look over to the table next to me and a gentleman said, don't fuck it up. Now. I was prepared. I absolutely loved the group of people I was speaking to and the topic I was speaking on.

[01:05:26] Mary: So I was like completely full in the moment in my perfect state when he said that. And it was a little bit playful. So I was like, how about this? You watch what I do and you can tell me after what you think. And of course I wanna know, right? But also I'm like, who the hell? Like, I literally had never seen this guy before in my life.

[01:05:44] Mary: But it didn't throw me off. Now

[01:05:46] Lisa: because you have good self-esteem

[01:05:50] Mary: in my, and I know I'm in my zone of genius. I know that I'm in a place doing the thing I'm meant to do, talking about the thing I'm meant to talk about. So it didn't rattle me.

[01:05:59] Lisa: Imagine him saying that to somebody who's going on that stage for the very first time.

[01:06:04] Mary: Yeah. It would've completely Yeah.

[01:06:06] Lisa: Crushed them.

[01:06:08] Mary: Totally

[01:06:08] Lisa: scared them.

[01:06:10] Mary: Yeah. And then the self-conscious, like in your head, stuff would've happened. And it was seconds before I was up there, so it wasn't even like I could like let it go and like. Go do power pose in the bathroom and get myself back into state or whatever.

[01:06:23] Mary: So, yeah. But then afterwards, because I do love, again, back to strength areas and things you, things you love and things you get good feedback for and all that stuff, because I'm in that zone, to have somebody who had constructive feedback, I was like, okay, so what'd you think? And then when he gave me really good, constructive feedback, I was like, oh, I want more of that.

[01:06:41] Mary: Right? And I wanna hear what you think. Like, so for me it was about taking whatever I'm doing and let's what, let's say I'm a seven outta 10 at it,

[01:06:49] Lisa: right?

[01:06:50] Mary: And up upping my skills. But it all based on where I started,

[01:06:54] Lisa: it's all based on where you start. Because if you were insecure, that feedback could have completely crushed you.

[01:07:01] Lisa: But because you're growth minded and you wanted the feedback and you actually put the ball in his court by saying, how about you watch and tell me how I did? He didn't say, do you want me to tell you how I did, how you did? Like you actually asked for it. Which is great. So to me, you are being a little bit defiant.

[01:07:18] Lisa: You're like, well, how about you watch and tell me how I, how I did, like, bring it on. I'm gonna show you I got the goods. Yeah. Right. Not everybody has that. And so I think that, I think as leaders, as business owners, whether it's giving feedback to our clients, whether it's giving feedback to our team members, our family members, we just have to be conscious of where, where is the place that somebody's at.

[01:07:42] Mary: Totally.

[01:07:42] Lisa: Sometimes there's a, there's a right time and a wrong time to give somebody constructive feedback, and sometimes you gotta use your judgment around when and how to give that feedback.

[01:07:53] Mary: Yeah.

[01:07:53] Lisa: If your intention is to always help, then you think thoughtfully about how you approach it.

[01:07:59] Mary: That is so true.

[01:08:01] Mary: I am very much more in my, you know, I dunno if it's age, stage, business, whatever. Mm-hmm. I'm very much intentional.

[01:08:10] Lisa: Yeah.

[01:08:10] Mary: About now I could be a dick sometimes too, right? Like, I don't mean to be like in the moment like, we see gaps, we see whatever.

[01:08:18] Lisa: Yeah, of course, of course. We're human.

[01:08:18] Mary: We could have done that.

[01:08:19] Mary: Yeah, yeah,

[01:08:19] Lisa: yeah.

[01:08:20] Mary: But I

[01:08:20] Mary: am very much

[01:08:21] Mary: like into my trying to do no harm and only support and do good.

[01:08:28] Lisa: Yeah. I've even started asking people if they want feedback. So, you know, a client of mine just compete, competed in a speaker competition and I watched the video and uh, I said watch the video. Do you want feedback or not?

[01:08:44] Lisa: Because I knew that she had been given feedback as part of the competition. I said, you know, I'm sure you've already received a lot of feedback. Do you want my, do you want me to give you my feedback or do you want, like, are you good? You've received enough feedback already? 'cause sometimes, you know, this individual didn't win the competition so they're already not feeling great 'cause they didn't quote win.

[01:09:05] Lisa: And they were like, I don't want it right now. I'd like it in a few days once I've had time to digest and I don't want any feedback if it's related to this or this, because I've already heard enough about that. I'm like, fair. That's not any of the feedback that I was gonna give you anyways. And so I was able to give them the feedback.

[01:09:25] Lisa: At the right time when they were emotionally ready to hear it and open to it. But sometimes we just di dive into, okay, here's some feedback, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Without thinking about the emotional state that somebody might be in right now, and whether the timing of receiving that feedback is good or not.

[01:09:43] Mary: Yeah. I think also in the world of being fast paced, for me sometimes I'm like going through the, oh, I send a note on whatever, move on to the next thing. And I'm not thinking about how that little slice of input

[01:09:57] Lisa: mm-hmm.

[01:09:57] Mary: You know, whatever. Yeah. Do this differently next time this thing didn't go well. I don't know, like I'm just like firing out information because I'm moving fast, quick start and so, oh yeah.

[01:10:09] Mary: Totally. Totally. And that's not how people wanna receive things. I think it's a great point to ask. You know, you are a very direct, and that is, I think that's a wonderful thing. Like I find it a breath of fresh air. Like I find it 'cause so many people. Couch what they say, and then it's like, what do they really mean?

[01:10:28] Mary: And are they just being nice or what? Like you have a clarity of thought that you're able to communicate clearly and directly, which is a kindness, I think, for people. It's effective obviously, as well. Yeah. But it's also a kindness that you can, you can clearly identify the meaning, the input, whatever it is, and then translate that into for, for somebody to understand without any baggage associated with it.

[01:10:55] Mary: Our world isn't always used to it, like you say, but

[01:10:58] Lisa: Yeah.

[01:10:58] Lisa: It can get, you called the B word,

[01:11:02] Mary: but

[01:11:03] Mary: you know

[01:11:03] Mary: what, that's a problen

[01:11:04] Lisa: It's what it is. Yeah. I don't care. Call me whatever names you wanna call me. It's fine. Like, I, I would rather, I, I would rather people know where they stand. I, I want, I wanna speak the truth and,

[01:11:16] Mary: mm-hmm.

[01:11:17] Lisa: I don't wanna beat around the bush and have people try to figure it out, but I also wanna be kind when I'm giving direct feedback. Yeah. And be clear about the direct feedback. Even on my team, you know, I have a, a saying with my team that anytime I give you feedback, it's like feedback to help you. It's feed forward, it's coaching.

[01:11:37] Lisa: It's like, I want you to, here's what you can do next time. I said, but the minute you hear the words, I have concerns with your performance before I give you the feedback, then you know that it's, we've reached a different level. This is no longer coaching. This is now a performance issue. Right. Because when you give people feedback, they often take it like it's a performance issue when it's not.

[01:12:01] Lisa: And so I'm very clear about the language that I use. If I say this, then it's not just coaching to help you get better. It's now, okay, we have a, we have a performance problem that we need to fix here. You know, I've had to, to do that because I am so direct in my feedback that sometimes people would think, oh my God, I'm in trouble.

[01:12:23] Lisa: And I'm like, what do you mean you're in trouble? Like, I like that was just, that was just feedback, right? That's coaching, that's just to help you for next time. You didn't, you didn't do anything wrong. It's feedback. But because I deliver it in a direct manner, it can be perceived the wrong way.

[01:12:37] Mary: Yes. And I have people, I had to have conversations with people before who were like, I'm like, wherever we are, we are.

[01:12:44] Mary: And I'm always thinking about, oh, next time we can do this.

[01:12:46] Lisa: Yeah.

[01:12:47] Mary: So don't assume that because I've said this, that I think this is bad. Right. Like, what exists is wrong. It's more like, I'm like always like, oh, what could be?

[01:12:56] Lisa: Right.

[01:12:56] Mary: So having those, like those norms that people understand mm-hmm. Are really helpful.

[01:13:01] Lisa: Yeah.

[01:13:03] Mary: Well, we could talk for days. How about one last question.

[01:13:06] Lisa: Okay.

[01:13:08] Mary: What do you believe now about the world and life, given your experiences?

[01:13:13] Lisa: That's a really big question,

[01:13:16] Mary: Mary. I know, but you know what? There's no right answer. You could have. It's just what comes to mind now.

[01:13:22] Lisa: I think, I really believe we create what we have.

[01:13:26] Lisa: You know, I, I believe that we have the ability to choose our attitude about things. I believe we have the power to change things. I believe that it's not always easy, but it's possible. And, you know, there I was listening to, like I said to you for Tim Ferris interviewed Jack Canfield, and one of the things that Jack Canfield was taught by w Clement Stone was, do you take a hundred percent responsibility for your life?

[01:13:55] Lisa: And it's really hard to take a hundred percent responsibility for your life, but when you take a hundred percent responsibility for your life, then. I, I really do believe you can change your circumstances. I mean, I grew up below the poverty line. I got myself buried in debt when I was in my twenties. I had a job until I was in my mid thirties.

[01:14:20] Lisa: Like every step along the way, every change has been because I was willing to try something different. I was willing to take a risk, I was willing to change my skills, change my behaviors, change my approach. And I think that sometimes people think that getting what you want in life and in this world is easier than it really is.

[01:14:43] Lisa: They see the Pinterest perfect outcome and they don't necessarily know, you know, what the you know, the scrapes and bruises and all the, the failed efforts along the way. Yeah. Look like. And I look at, you know, some of the young people that I know in my life right now who I see struggle and. I just think if they would just change the way, you know, to quote Wayne Dyer, if they would change the way they look at things, the things they look at would change.

[01:15:14] Mary: Totally agree with that.

[01:15:15] Lisa: So I do, it's interesting. Believe there's a lot that we control in terms of the responsibility. Do you take

[01:15:23] Mary: even your three moments that you chose to talk about today, like when you think about, you know, being that ill as a child and what, and that whole experience, and I'm sure there are many learnings and have shaped, you know, who you are in so many ways, but that learning that you will never be in a situation where either you or the people that you know are around you won't be able to take care of what matters.

[01:15:49] Mary: Like right there. Mm-hmm. Is a quality in you and a quality in life and, and, and a world you're creating.

[01:15:55] Lisa: Mm-hmm.

[01:15:56] Mary: Because of that experience. And the same thing's true for, you know, the horizons you had for yourself and the story you had for yourself around money. Mm-hmm. And then all of a sudden you meet with a different version of the story and you're like, what's possible for me?

[01:16:11] Mary: And then, you know, lastly, the, the famous red pen that was actually a gift. Mm-hmm. A gift where you could see what happens when you can feed positive into people in the world. Right. So

[01:16:23] Lisa: mm-hmm.

[01:16:24] Mary: That's why I love this conversations because your life is a mirror for learning growth, what matters to you. And these little moments, like everybody can learn from them.

[01:16:34] Lisa: Mm-hmm.

[01:16:35] Mary: And also reflect on their own moments. 'cause they're, uh, they're just gifts to us.

[01:16:41] Lisa: Mm-hmm.

[01:16:41] Mary: So,

[01:16:42] Lisa: yeah. I agree.

[01:16:44] Mary: Well, thank you so much for your time. This has been lovely.

[01:16:46] Lisa: Well, thanks for having me . It's always great to have a conversation with you.

[01:16:51] Mary: Yes. Well let's do it again.

[01:16:53] Lisa: Alright.

[01:16:53] Mary: Maybe on She Talks business podcast.

[01:16:55] Lisa: Yes. There you go,

[01:16:56] Mary: Lisa Larter. Go check it out that we're than 200 episodes in the world.

[01:17:00] Lisa: There you go.

[01:17:03] Mary: Thanks everyone.