From Broken Instruments to a Bigger Mission: Kathleen Bokrossy on Building What Matters

Mary Fearon: If you've ever had a passion for an industry or a group of people and making their days and lives easier and better, this episode's for you. Kathleen Bokrossy started out as a dental hygienist and fell in love with the industry, fell in love with her peers, and made a career as a serial entrepreneur solving problems for this group of people across Canada. Now she runs a thriving business that is all about continuing education and improving the experience for dental hygienists. And we talk about all those moments of somebody needs to solve this problem, but who am I to do it? So if you're thinking about the big problem you want to solve and the people you want to serve, you can learn a lot from Kathleen. Enjoy.

Mary: awesome. Thank you.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Thank you for having me.

Mary: Thank you for coming on. I I was recently, and you know this, but I was recently talking with some with another entrepreneurial woman who I have a lot of respect for who's grown her business and and brought vision therapy to Canada. So she's a trailblazer in her own right. And she and I were talking about her business and education and all of that, and that made me think of you because of the work that you've done. And carving a completely new path in your industry. So I'm so excited

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: to talk about that. And I don't know if you and I have ever covered off how you got to this place, like the moments in your life that brought you to this moment where you're sitting in your dream house across from your cottage, working

Kathleen Bokrossy: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mary: in your business, but also parts

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: of charity, like just so, so busy and full of a life. But you've just, it's

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: like you designed it. Perfectly for yourself.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, I feel like it was a really great design that we did. And it's it's funny because I am living in in my dream house right now and we moved here in 2020 during the during COVID and we have a cottage up here on Coagama. And then my husband just kind of was like looking online and was like, Hey Kath, look at this at this home, at this cottage. So I looked at it and I was just like I fell in love with it automatically and I'm like, Are you serious? So we went and we looked that day. we walked in and I noticed right away that this was my dream home. Like I've dreamt of this home for probably twenty years. And I'd wake up and I would just feel so good and I'd be like, I gotta find this home. And then when we walked, Paul's like

Mary: And then you walked through the door and there it is.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, Paul's like he knew when he saw my face that that was it. So we bought the house that night.

Mary: in your business too, I'm sure there's a benefit to you being down here, you know, every once

Kathleen Bokrossy: yeah. Yeah.

Mary: in a while, yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: A lot of this like a lot of the stuff that I do is online, but we have a facility in Burlington for our education where and I can talk about a bit about my story and how how I got here. Like you first

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: asked when I went down the how did I get to Coagama. But

Mary: Ha ha ha.

Kathleen Bokrossy: yeah, so I'll go down and and it is good to be. I love my I love my office. I love the facility, I love my team. So I really do enjoy going down there. And yeah, I always feel proud.

Mary: Mm-hmm. Do you ever participate? So you'll you'll you'll walk us through what you do. but I am curious to know, like, do you participate in the education like the education that happen that happens now at all, or do you

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, I have a few topics that I talk about. Quality assurance

Mary: Okay.

Kathleen Bokrossy: is one, instrumentation is another. so I'll do some in person things for that.

Mary: Okay, yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: But then I can do a lot online too. So but we'll do like

Mary: Okay.

Kathleen Bokrossy: laser training and different different trainings there that I don't do. Like I have people that are fantastic and experts in their field and that was part of when I started my my company. I wasn't going to do everything myself. It's it I've provided a platform for all these presenters. So yeah. All right.

Mary: Sure, okay, okay. So would it be appropriate for me to say that you ha are the founder of a business that get provides continuing education for dental hygienists? Is that the Okay, okay.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yes. Yeah. And I would say it's like we're the professional growth partner to dental hygienist because we're more

Mary: I love that.

Kathleen Bokrossy: than we're more than continuing education. We're about implementation. so I always say like it's it's really great to learn, but the change really happens when we implement what we've learned. Because we've you know

Mary: Mm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: everyone's gone to courses and you feel good

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: and like, that was great and then you leave and nothing changes, right? So

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I'm that's a big part of of my company. It's you know, transforming the dental hygiene experience for for the clinician, the patient and and the practice. Yeah.

Mary: I love it. I love it. And you've had quite a bit of success, but take us back to how it all started in the first place.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Well my goodness. It's a long story. No. so I am a Dolphin Hyde.

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I graduated many, many years ago from the States. I went to school in the States because back in the day, like we'd have to be a dental assistant first. I went to school for dental assisting and then you apply for hygiene. So there could be like over 2,000 people applying and they'd only have like 200 positions for out 10

Mary: wow.

Kathleen Bokrossy: schools across across the province. So I ended up going down to the States and I pra and I got my my schooling down there and I came up and I got my registration here in Ontario.

Mary: Okay.

Kathleen Bokrossy: And then traveled around quite a bit with my husband with his work. He always wanted to move around with his company. So we lived in one area of of Ontario, moved to another, and then we moved out to BC. And so I had to get

Mary: lovely.

Kathleen Bokrossy: my my registration out there, which is a whole other story for back in the back in the day it was not easy. And then eventually we came back home. But if what what had happened was when I was working at all these dental practices, so I was either new in a dental practice or I was temping, because we did move around quite a bit. And so I was really exposed to to to different practices and and one of the moments that I remember very clearly was I was temping and I remember and like when you had asked me like think about a few moments of your life that really made things happen. Like there were like moments that made you change or that were so important.

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I remember holding a pack of instruments in my hand and there was like Like three instruments in this pack. One had a broken end, so only one end was working. And I

Mary: Ha ha ha.

Kathleen Bokrossy: had seen this. much too many times. Like it was, it was not good. So I had so it was like that moment was like it's almost like a pause in time. And that was like a moment for me. I remember standing there, like a picture. And that was where I was like, I'm going to make something happen from this. I'm tired of seeing the quality that's out there of the instruments. And when I was in school, I was always like really good at sharpening. And it was like it's what one of those skills that you have to you have to be good at it because it's fundamental for as a dental hygienist like we have to have good instruments so wherever I was practicing I was always like sharpening everyone's instruments I'd have the machines going I'd do the dentist you know instruments surgical restorative hygiene and then this is a long time ago like this is back in the in the nineties right so so

Mary: Yeah. I know the nineties. I was there with you.

Kathleen Bokrossy: So then I was thinking like there has to be somebody out there who could manage this for us. And back then there was nobody doing it. So I just saw an opportunity. and that's I think that's part of what I do is I see opportunities and then I create solutions. And so that's been my whole entrepreneurial life is being I see something that needs to be fixed and I'll come up with an idea

Mary: Fix it.

Kathleen Bokrossy: to fix it. And I just do it. And so I started this company, this dental instrument company and we I didn't do it myself. I had another company I'd send off off to and we would have like all the offices from all over North America would send us instruments. We would probably Process them, we would sharpen them, re-tip them, replace them. I had programs going across. I was in like a lot of schools and a lot of dental hygiene schools as well. And I was also teaching a lot. So I would go to conferences or I'd go to dental practices and I would do hands-on instrumentation and stuff. And people always said, I love this. You know, you should do more of this. So I'd hear that. And then I remember like back in the day, I'd sit in a room with hundreds of others. Other dental professionals, and I just didn't really get anything out of it. I would just be like not really engaged, and I'd see a lot of dental hygienists not engaged. And then we also have this whole quality assurance program that we have to manage, and people fear our regulatory college. So at that same time, I created a professional development company to really change the way dental hygienists are learning and to really get them excited because I really feel strongly like if you're learning. You're growing and you're going to love what you do. But if you're, you know, pausing and you're not you think school's done, those are the people that I see who aren't happy in their career. And yeah, so really

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: that's that's how I started RDHU. That's my company. I sold my instrument company back in 2012, the manufacturing company wanted to buy it, so I sold it to them. It was good timing because I had just started RDHU. And at the same time I started an online tool that we manage people's quality assurance and we made it fun. Instead of them fearing it, we made it fun. And I helped over, I'd say over 8,000 back in the day. And now we still

Mary: Wow.

Kathleen Bokrossy: do like because now now our college has their own online but they didn't have it at the time. So we had it for a while. We'd have like monthly webinars and make it a lot of

Mary: Right.

Kathleen Bokrossy: fun. And then I also saw clothing. I'd go into offices and I'd just see like messy, messy scrubs, and they didn't look professional and they weren't stylish. So created a clothing company as well where we customized.

Mary: I did not know that.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, it was in Burlington on Main Way. And I had like I had my instrument company up at the front and then like change room and everything. And at the back were all the sewers and cutters and equipment for that. And then we were in hospitals, spas, everything, and somebody made

Mary: Wow.

Kathleen Bokrossy: us to buy that. So I sold that company, which I was happy because I didn't really it it's it's not that wasn't for me. Like yeah.

Mary: Okay. Like the whole clothing.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, like I bought this black top this this month and it's not the same color as the black pants that I bought last year. And I'm like, okay. So things like that. It was just like

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: It just it it was fine. I I loved the clothes and I loved what we did for that. Like we were one of the first to really bring fashion into the medical space. I loved it while I had it. but then it was time when somebody came to me, I'm like, Yeah, there are things about it. And yeah, so I sold that one and then yeah, so now I have RDHU and

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: We have about twenty two thousand dental hygienists across across Canada mostly, but we do have some from different parts of the world and and we have different presenters from different parts of the world as well. So that's always nice. And yeah, so I really I love I love what I

Mary: That's amazing. So I wanna go back. I wanna go back before because like clearly entrepreneurship's in your blood somehow. Like,

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. Yes.

Mary: and so I wanna know, like, let's go back to why dental hygienist in the first place. Like, what did you like? 'Cause from my understanding, and you know, I don't know much, but that that's it's not an easy job. It's a spatial thing

Kathleen Bokrossy: It's not.

Mary: too. Like you go, you know, from your house to your car to an office to inside somebody's mouth.

Kathleen Bokrossy: All day.

Mary: The dentist is a place that people resist. Like I'm one of those people that's like white knuckled in the chair. I have

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: my current descent dentist I love and the people there I love. It's the first time though. Like I'm 51. The first time in my life was in the last decade of finding a dentist where I didn't feel they're

Kathleen Bokrossy: And this one too.

Mary: they're so lovely. Yeah, they're so lovely. And they always compliment me with my kids because they're they're 19 and 21 now, but they've always said

Kathleen Bokrossy: Nice.

Mary: they're such nice kids. So I mean, like the whole thing's rewarding. But

Kathleen Bokrossy: That's nice.

Mary: Going to the dentist is like I always say like if something's bad or whatever, I compare it to like root canal. Like going to the dentist

Kathleen Bokrossy: Ready?

Mary: is not a it's like a have

Kathleen Bokrossy: I know it's

Mary: to.

Kathleen Bokrossy: it's crazy because when I was younger, I loved going to the dentist and I loved going to see the dental hygienist. And I don't know why, but because I don't know, it was just one of those things that I just I always loved being there, even if I had to get a filling. And

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: and back in the day, like I've I've had a lot of fillings. just from yeah. Yeah.

Mary: Mm-hmm. Same. Growing up in the sixties, seventies, eighties, whatever, like before I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I they

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: say they say that it could be your teeth like it's genetic that your teeth are porous or whatever, but I have a lot of feelings. I like yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I think they've got good teeth though. They're nice and strong. I like your mom's teeth. But I still have cavities and But I I didn't know what I was going to do. I was I was in high school and I really loved playing the piano, I loved playing the clarinet, so I thought maybe I'll go into music. So that was kind of like the path that I was going. And so in grade 13, I switched schools to go to a school that had a good music program. And then something just wasn't sitting with me. I just felt like this is not this is not the right path. And then I was at my aunt's during March break and kind of sitting with Her that week and just trying to figure out what do I want to do. And then she had a dental hygiene appointment. So she left. And when she came back, and I remember her coming in, here's another that changed everything moment because she came,

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: she walked in and she said, Kath, you should be a dental hygienist. And I said, I'm gonna be a dental hygienist. And I knew, right?

Mary: No way.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, yeah. So Yeah, so I kind of always go with my gut, you know, I just feel like when I know like the house, like we saw it, we bought it. We weren't looking down the road or going here or there. I just we've always kind of I think Paul is a lot like that as well, which can be good and it can be bad, but I'm like a quick start implementer, not a fact finder.

Mary: You know, it's so fun. I was, I was gonna ask you about your Kolbe because I've also done my Kolbe. I'm a quick start too. That might be one of the reasons we get along, we get on so well.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yes.

Mary: but I'm a low implementer, but it I was thinking about your Kolbe. And and for those

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: who are listening who don't know about Kolbe, it's K-O-L-B-E. We'll put it in the show notes, but it is a measure of your think your approach to challenge, like how you show up to a challenge or an opportunity. Those quick starts like us have like we come up with ideas, we take risks, we move quickly, that kind of thing. And

Kathleen Bokrossy: Or innovators.

Mary: innovators, yeah. And much to the chagrin of the people who are practical and like and planful. Yeah, yeah,

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. Specific. Yeah.

Mary: the details and all those things, right? So and then me too. I'm like, don't take me down that path. It's too like I actually

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. Stuff that hurts my brain.

Mary: I'll say to people, I can't see the forest for the trees. Like, I like don't bring me into the trees because my

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yes.

Mary: my brain wants to operate at the forest level and it's very uncomfortable to go down any further. You know, and so I can't be helpful. I get lost in there, right? Yeah. And then there's the other

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yes, me too. So yeah. Me too. Me too.

Mary: the the other one I was wondering is implementer. If you have a low implementer score, you don't need to build things. You are okay. You could you somebody could give you a vision for something and you're like, cool, I got it. Other people want to go make it real. And you're in this business of tangibly,

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: like you're looking at the literally the implements from from dental hygiene and you're like, these aren't good enough. And you had to go solve that problem. So what

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mary: is your implementer score?

Kathleen Bokrossy: I actually looked at my Kolbe just because I was presenting at a school last week and I wanted to tell them about it. My implementer

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: is a six. Quick start is a nine. Implementer was

Mary: That's awesome. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: a six, follow through three, and fact finder was one.

Mary: good grief. I used to be judgy of like early in my career, I'm in my 20s, late 20s, early 30s, and I would look at people older than me in their 40s and 50s, and I would be like, why did they forget what happened in that meeting? Like it was so obvious. Like I totally know everything.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: And now here I am that age, and I want to tell all the young people who had that attitude that I had, you know what? There's like twenty

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: more years of accumulation in here. Like the rule the the filing system is pretty full.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, it's just like your hard drive, right? We have to delete stuff. That's not important. You know, like if you had asked

Mary: Yeah, and some

Kathleen Bokrossy: me about about my Kolbe, say two weeks ago, I probably wouldn't have remembered, but I just brought that out, you know, last last

Mary: Right. Right.

Kathleen Bokrossy: week I spoke out of college. Yeah.

Mary: That's so funny. Okay. So, dental hygiene. You're like, I'm gonna go do that. Was there ever a point where you're like I d I shouldn't have done this? Or did you once you made that decision, never. That's so cool.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Never. I love it. And I still love it. And I I practiced clinically for like almost 20 years. So

Mary: Okay.

Kathleen Bokrossy: and then I started my instrument business and I tried to do both. I just found it too hard. So I had to because I was with like a patient and this was a compromise patient, I remember like that's another that changed everything moment because I was with this patient. But I was thinking about shoot, I didn't send that email. It was like I I I was thinking about the business and that's when I realized like I can't do be a be the great clinician and I was a great clinician. but I had this drive of I wanted to do this instrument thing and I wanted to fix like everyone's instruments that were in every practice and elevate our care that we provide.

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I felt so passionate about it. So I I just put my ac my registration on inactive because when I was active, I had a few favorite offices and they'd call me and say, Kath, could you just fill in for March break or could you work this Friday? And I would always say yes. So I made myself inactive so I could just focus on the business and and then have to say no that I'm I'm not active at the moment. So I can't work for you. Cause otherwise I can't

Mary: And so then y have you not been active ever since?

Kathleen Bokrossy: Well, I am active. You can only be inactive for three years. So I'm I am still an active registered dental hygienist. But if you were like off on sick leave or you just were taking a different path, then you would do that, but you can't go over the three years because then

Mary: Okay.

Kathleen Bokrossy: you're gonna lose your your registration and yeah, and go back and do a whole schooling program and stuff to get back in.

Mary: So you go and you you decide to start the instrument business. What so and I can appreciate you've already said you're passionate about the issue and you wanted to be able to improve everybody's experience. So I can I I'm

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yes.

Mary: understanding the motivation, like the broader impact and the sense of importance of it. What were you did at any point were you doubtful, scared? Like what

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: happened? Yeah. So tell me about that. Like, cause there is this, like, as an entrepreneur, there is

Kathleen Bokrossy: So hard.

Mary: this like, like, I want to do the thing, but am I ready for the thing? Like, can I do it?

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. I it was very

Mary: Why me? Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: It was very hard. Yes. So when I was when I was living in BC, we moved back to Ontario in nineteen ninety-eight. So I had a very good friend who ended up being our sales rep. And then I had met another dental hygienist who who was in Alberta and she became our sal sales rep for there. So when I came back, like I was my first and best customer, right? So the office that I had. And so I just slowly grew it. But when I was out in BC before I left. I was trying to start it and I would go to offices and they were kind of mean, a lot of them. Like, and I would and I called I call those people the rejectionists, you know, those receptionists that

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: are like they have the the closed gate. So I would I'd met

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: a lot of rejectionists along the way. And so I'd and I was in my early 30s and I'd go to my car and cry.

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I wouldn't cry now, but I I would cry and and then just go to the next one. And I just felt like, no, I'm gonna do this. And I just Yeah.

Mary: That takes a lot because here you are with this idea, but you don't know that the market's gonna accept your idea. I mean, you do know that it's a problem, like you said. Yeah, that's right. You didn't do any fact finding, you're just like, idea. I had an idea and then I went and made

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. Yep.

Mary: it happen. So, but the other thing is though, everything you've built, you built based on a need you saw in the market. So it's not like you were making, I don't know. running shoes on wheels when you didn't think any when you didn't know if anybody needed that, you were solving

Kathleen Bokrossy: Right.

Mary: a problem you needed to solve for yourself. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, and I kind of just knew that it was happening. Like I just would see and I'd hear other people too. Like even like with the education, people would say, like, after I presented or I'd go into an office, they'd be just like, We love this, like Too bad there's not

Mary: Okay.

Kathleen Bokrossy: more of this. Could you do more of this? Right. So I would hear all this stuff. And then everybody feared our portfolio back in the day. And I would be I even feared it. And I was just like, Let's try to fix this. So luckily when I was creating the online tool, I actually got I was being audited. And I had never been audited before. And it was like almost twenty years. And I just thought, they know what I'm doing and I've been grandfathered, but that wasn't the case. Nowadays you can't probably go over three, four years before you'd be audited. So like, but then it was just random selection. I was just always the lucky one that didn't get audited. So I learned how to do it. Like I put myself into a situation where like putting myself out there, like I work with all the associations, the provincial associations, national regulatory bodies, like I'm it's like I'm not hiding. You know what I mean? Like you're out there. So I put myself

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: out there without really knowing, but I would learning as I went and just felt so strongly about it. And so

Mary: Right.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I drove in because I was being audited at the same time, learned how to do it. And then we just taught everybody. We'd have weekends at our facility. We used to have a place in Stony Creek and they would come and then we'd surprise them to get a limo. I take them all to the winery. We'd all stay at the hotel room. They'd all come in in my room and we would be like working on portfolios all night. Like it was just Just like make

Mary: so fun.

Kathleen Bokrossy: it a lot of fun. Yeah. So we did a lot of those when we had that that system, but now it's on the it's on a regulatory bodies system. So it's not the same, but I still teach them. And they had asked me too, when they came out with their own, they had asked me, do you want to bid against two other IT companies to get this? And

Mary: Mm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I said, you know, could I still help the dental hygienist? Like could I still coach them and they said no that would be a conflict. So I said no then I'll just stay because I know that that's that was more important to me to help people not fear it because a lot of people would just bury their head in the sand and it's like you don't want to know what's going on. You don't want to do it and all of a sudden you're being audited and now you're fearful. And so I tried

Mary: So the portfolio is like a is every hygienist needs to do one and it expo like, if they don't do it well, they I mean it's like give me

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: a sense of what happens if you don't do it right. Why is Yeah, I totally and then also like I'm hearing your mission. and then even turning down the opportunity, which would have been a great business opportunity. You understand the market, you understand the whole

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: process. You had provided it to your clients before, but to step back and say, Well, if my real mission is to elevate the hygienist experience, then that's kind of I I'm gonna stick to that. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, exactly.

Mary: when did you know that your mission was a s was all about elevating the hygienist experience? 'Cause the is was even the instrument company part of that? Like yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. Yeah, I think it started then, but then I really I don't know, I guess we just evolve and just you know

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: when I started R DHU that's what it was really about. So I started RDHU in two thousand and nine. So it's a long time.

Mary: okay.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Seventeen years. And I really

Mary: Yeah. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: started it two years before. You were you were mentioning your friend Trish who's starting the educational. I had no idea what I was doing. Like I I don't even know.

Mary: Right.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I was asked to present on this, which is now mine, like I bought this, but it was called the DVD Journal. And then we turned change it to Dental Hygiene Quarterly. So that's another part of RDHU. But I was asked to present on instrumentation at this facility in Oakville. So that's how this whole thing started with RDHU because I went to the facility and I had heard all the feedback that I was getting from when I was teaching.

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: So I had no clue what I was doing. Like I just knew I

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: wanted to do it And then I came across Joe and Dean in two thousand and twelve because my husband Paul's like, You should come to this conference with me because he He had his own business and so I went and yeah. Yeah.

Mary: Was this I love marketing? I love marketing? Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: So that was another that made things change for me, like and that changed everything because I started living and breathing their philosophy, the before, during, and after, and I've totally incorporated into everything I do. And so

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I, you know, at first when I first went there, I was just like enjoying the whole conference. And then they had this one that you, you know, sign up, you pay monthly, and you're part of the I forget the platinum or something. And I was like, well, let me Me just come back and see if I'll implement one thing. So I implemented one thing and and then went back in the spring of 20, I guess 2012. I think I met them in 2011. And in spring of 2012, I went and they had the better your best contest.

Mary: so just for listeners, so you're talking about I love marketing, you're talking about Dean Jackson and Joe Polish, who

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. Joe. Yeah. Yeah.

Mary: obviously were running a contest. So you go and you learn their philosophy. You mentioned before, during, and after. I've been to a Dean workshop and he talks about separating a business into three distinct businesses: the before unit, the during unit, and the after unit. And we all think about the during unit, because that's when we're Supplying our services to our customers and clients. But if you if you look at it like the before unit, their whole job in their business is to deliver people to the during unit. And the whole

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. Yeah.

Mary: purpose of the during unit is to create loyalty and repeat customers in the after unit. And the after unit

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yes. Yes.

Mary: is supposed to give bring people back to, you know, back inside. So it's quite a fascinating way to look at business. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I live, breathe and dream that stuff. And it's like yeah, it's like I spend most of my time in the after unit. So it's

Mary: Okay.

Kathleen Bokrossy: it's like after the course we still are delivering things and

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: But we look at all all of it and our whole team knows that. And even like all help, one of the other things that I speak about, not just quality assurance and instrumentation, but it's on growing your practice. So it's like helping, helping dental, I'd like to work with boutique style dental practices and dental hygiene clinics and helping them implement the before, during, and after into the patient experience. So

Mary: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: There's lot of opportunity there and I I love that. So it that's where I would like to spend my time is doing that. That's like where I really enjoy

Mary: I love it because what you've done is you've it it sounds like in every stage you've taken an experience that you have, you've learned from it, you've decided to improve it, and then you go and deliver it to others. So now you've grown your business, like 22,000 high wait, like what are the numbers? How many hygienists are

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, we probably have we probably have more than that. Like we probably have about twenty six thousand and but some of them are just like not engaged. So we just remove them like just from our our group so that we're not constantly, you know, staying connected with them. And but we have about thirty five thousand dental hygienists in Canada. So we have a lot of dental hygienists in our group.

Mary: You have yes, you could say you have like the entire market of dental hygienists. That's incredible.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. No.

Mary: Yeah. I mean, do you ever sit back? Like they talk about how entrepreneurs okay. Entrepreneurs are always thinking about what's next, what could I do better, et cetera. And often we find ourselves in the gap because you're like, I'm not where I want to be. We didn't make the progress I wanted to make. But if you look in the rearview mirror at what you've accomplished. And like you're creating something out of nothing. Like you're not improving what was there before, like, this system for education. I mean, in some ways, but you're creating like there's a there's a problem here and I'm gonna go create something to solve it. And now even this next idea that you have, helping dental offices improve the patient experience

Kathleen Bokrossy: Mm-hmm.

Mary: by looking at it before, during and after, like, like that's a whole other consulting business you could have.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I know. I want to clone myself because that's where I want to be now in that space. We have

Mary: Yeah, that's so fun.

Kathleen Bokrossy: it we have we we're calling it the RDHU Boutique Marketing Suite. And it's like Yeah. And I do like

Mary: I love it. So

Kathleen Bokrossy: I do those things for our for our like our corporate partners that we deal with as well. Like we'll do the whole experience for them and how they can implement it into their practice. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mary: Mm-hmm. That's so cool. can now I kinda I want to understand a little bit. So you did the contest, you learned the philosophy, but can you kind of pinpoint, and it's been now since 2012 to now, 14 years. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: So long yeah. I know.

Mary: I want to understand like, can you pinpoint certain things that just worked and were like, my

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: gosh, I'm so glad I made that call. I'd love to hear about a couple

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: of those.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Like when I had before I I met Jo and Dean, I would always focus on the the customer experience. So like when I had the instruments, they would open up their box and I hated like like how sterile all the things were like you order instruments, it comes in, you know, here's your the bubble wrap and all this stuff. So when they opened up mine, they would open up it was like a gift. And it had like

Mary: I love it.

Kathleen Bokrossy: purple tissue paper. We'd always include some chocolate. we'd have a nice label on it. everything was pretty. I love pretty things. Like I everything I do I want

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: pretty pretty to happen. and we we

Mary: Mm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: have men in our groups too, but they like it too, so it's all nice. And then yeah. Yeah. It's a gift. It's

Mary: It's the care and the joy of like this is an important tool in your life. Like taking that care. Yeah, yeah, I love it.

Kathleen Bokrossy: and then when I started really looking at the experience, the before, during and after, So I would focus on how can I improve the before, right? So being more like as if I'm just talking to one person, perhaps giving some reading before they come in, getting to know your presenter so we had to show the RDH view. And that was part of the after as well. So the after feeds into the before. And that was the one thing

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I started from the from when I was at that conference. It was the one thing I thought if I can implement something free and see how it works. So I implemented the RDH view. So it was like the view, but it's the RDH view. So it's a talk show. Talk show

Mary: That was cool. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: and it was Yeah, so I've been doing that. I've taken a pause a couple of times, but we're back at it again. and that's kind of a nice give back as well, but it gets people to meet us, to come on for free, to get to know some of our presenters.

Mary: Mm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: and it's again like a nice, a nice give back. So that would be the thing that I implemented that was

Mary: Mm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: And then also part of the after was like giving them something so that they bought the course, but it doesn't end there. So we would give them extra layering of learning so they could, you know, take

Mary: Mm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: the course, but then, here's this article, here's this study, here's this. So just layer, layer, layer. And so it kind of is like the complete package that that they need to put into their learning portfolio to implement into their practice to make change happen. Yeah.

Mary: Right. I love that so much. I love the idea of the added value. the f the perception

Kathleen Bokrossy: Good. Yeah.

Mary: that, you know, you're signing up for something and you're paying for it. And like I in our world and client service, it could be the scope of work and you have to deliver the thing. It's like the contract between you and your customer. but the experience, like the before and the added value after, the Get to know your presenters. Like I just spoke at a conference in Orlando and the only mention of me on the agenda was in the app when people were choosing their breakout sessions. So if they'd never heard about me or you know, if they hadn't

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: they had no sort of window other than like the little paragraph that's buried inside the phone, and they're making a decision based on that. So I think like the the whole experience of people getting to

Kathleen Bokrossy: Thanks.

Mary: know, getting to trust, getting to get like a sense of who that person is. Like I I could spend time with that person. I now feel like

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: I know them a little bit is such a it's good for the presenters too.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, and I love like there's been a lot of people that have presented with us for the first time. Like I'll see something in somebody and I'm like, you gotta be a presenter. Like some of our say some of our reps that we used to work with and or even still do, like I'd be like, You should be presenting. And they're I don't present. yeah, you're going to present. Come, you're gonna do this. And and then even helping some like dental hygienists that that want to present. And so I love I love showcasing people and I love like making them, you know, stand out and showing their strengths and and bragging about them. That's what I I

Mary: Yeah. I

Kathleen Bokrossy: I really love to grow people. And

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: yeah, it's it's it's been good.

Mary: I think that's so amazing. Okay. So you started out with fear and you've started a number of businesses. And, you know, to my knowledge, none of them have flopped. You make you haven't

Kathleen Bokrossy: No, I haven't closed any.

Mary: closed any. Yeah. so you make

Kathleen Bokrossy: And I'm not.

Mary: the com and you're yeah, exactly. And then let's we'll talk about this too, the whole prospect of retirement, because people go,

Kathleen Bokrossy: Mm-hmm.

Mary: okay, well, you have achieved enough. When are you gonna

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: just like move on and enjoy that beautiful cottage and and and you know I can't do I can't yeah tell me

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. So I I've been writing every week since two thousand and thirteen. So it's called on track Tuesday. Just kind of like you have your Thursday, right? So I've been doing that.

Mary: Yeah. One thing Thursday, yeah. It's only two years in the running. You you've been you're you're like a decade and a half on this.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. And I yeah, and it used to take me days to write it. And now it takes me because I've been doing it so so long. And so basically I just write about what's going on in my life and then I turn it into into them. So like turn it into something dental related or professionally

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: related or personally related that that they could benefit from it. So Yeah, so I've been doing that for a while. Why was I telling you that? I already forget. okay.

Mary: It was I was talking about the what you've achieved and you know lots of people would say you've contributed enough and y it's now your time to enjoy it or whatever.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. So this is why I was telling you this too, because I wrote about I wrote about my hairdresser a few years ago had asked me, So when are you going to retire? And it was because I was like, Now I see somebody different. So it's been probably two years ago. She's like, So when are you going to retire? And I said Why would I retire? So you can enjoy your life. And I said, I am enjoying my life. Like, you know what I mean? So why? So she's not enjoying her life. And she's done retire. And so for people who aren't loving what they do, yeah, it makes sense, right? And for me, like I feel like I've learned so much in so many different areas that I feel like I'm at a really good point in my career. Why would I end it now? You know?

Mary: I completely agree. I like I I was talking to a friend who lives in Seattle. She's a nurse and she works in a hospital, she's a labor and delivery nurse, and she was saying that she had this feeling, and she's 50. she had this feeling that the management was spending so much time on these, you know, the new flock of nurses coming in and she's like fighting her own sense of relevance and all of that. I was like, Stacy, you have never had this much experience, wisdom, you know, capability, contribution to give. Like, because you've accumulated all of this over time. And so

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: why in the world would people then decide to turn that tap off when, you know, as you the more experience you get, the more wisdom, the more wins, the losses, the like the more you have to offer the world. And, you know, you and I were talking about this earlier, but human beings are wired for two things. They want to connect and they want to contribute. Like they want

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: to feel like that what they do every day matters.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Mm-hmm.

Mary: And so why would you unplug from that? I totally appreciate the people you know, if people aren't enjoying their experience and they're they're counting down the days and they feel stuck where they are. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, if you hate Sundays, if you what do they call it? The scary Sundays. Yeah.

Mary: Yeah. Sunday blues in my family or the sk Sunday scaries. Yeah. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: He used to have that every Sunday. Yeah.

Mary: Yeah. Yeah, that's hard.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I was I was I received a beautiful award, which it's the Danobi Awards. I'll show you it. I'll

Mary: Yeah, please go get it.

Kathleen Bokrossy: just kneel back. It's so that was

Mary: look at that. Beautiful.

Kathleen Bokrossy: like a real highlight for me because to be recognized for my contributions to the field of dentistry and it was like so touching. And it was down in Portland, Oregon and there was like four hundred people that were nominated and then they did the short list of fifty and then they had nine winners and then a team and actually picked another team after. But I was just so honored. You know, it's just like Yeah, that was nice after all the years and and to be recognized.

Mary: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: This it's kinda like the Oscars for for dentistry.

Mary: Yeah, I love it. Did they play it like I

Kathleen Bokrossy: So I really

Mary: So they just give you yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: wasn't expecting it. And I was very emotional when it happened because I was just so

Mary: wow.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I was so appreciative that yeah, like I've worked really hard and it hasn't been easy. I've been on that entrepreneurial roller coaster and had a lot of ups and downs and but I I'm like I I don't give up. Like I I'm I'm pretty strong and things have happened where like with my instrument company we had an issue with the metal and it was really bad and And I was lied to about the quality of the metal. So I had to find a new manufacturer, put me on hold for a long time. People that I had helped grow their instrument business, I helped them. And when I needed them, they called me back and said, We won't help you. Yeah.

Mary: No.

Kathleen Bokrossy: luckily I've got great family and and you just like Paul can turn my my mood around if I'm like, I don't think I wanna do this. I'm he can turn me around in like 30 seconds. That's why.

Mary: That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, he's so supportive, right? So

Mary: that's so I think that's so important. I know people say you're lucky to have a good spouse sometimes. My husband and I have a very like team approach and there's nobody in the world that supports anything I want to do more than he does. And I feel very lucky. And I also know it's a choice you make every day to be in it with your partner and to support them and like like that is that's it's it's it's an intentional thing. It doesn't happen by accident.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Right.

Mary: You know? so as you were talking about it being tough and you pushing through and you don't give up, how important is it for you to have had clarity about who you're serving and what you're meant to do?

Kathleen Bokrossy: Well, I think that's the foundation. Like I feel like that's that's my purpose. And and that's my driving factor really is that's what helps me with ever with every decision. Like I I just love to to help people and to help our profession and what what we do is so important for the whole overall health of Canada. Like we need to elevate the oral care of Canadians. And so that's all part of it. And I don't know, I just I feel like that that is that is the key. And I think that keeps me going and And I and I love I love my profession and I love having a business. I love my lifestyle. yeah, it's good.

Mary: Mm-hmm. What don't you love about it? Is there anything that you're like I could get rid of this tomorrow?

Kathleen Bokrossy: I'm you know what one of the things I get tired about is putting bums in the in the seats, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Mary: Right. The recruiting, the constant having to get people in, fill the s filling the classes. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Exactly. And we do so many things now. Like we've got a leadership department, like program. We've got wellness and yoga. We have QA. We have on demand. We have live streaming. We have in office. So we'll go to your office. We have

Mary: Wow.

Kathleen Bokrossy: our facility. So we just bought our facility. I always rented And we shared space and it was always nice. Like it was it was like a good experience, but to now have our own place. so

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: we were renting space with a really great two other companies and they were lovely. We were with them for probably three years in Burlington. so they would have the training center for during the week and I would have it on the weekends. And then And then I just wanted to have our own place. I wanted to brand it, RDHU.

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: And so I I said to them, I'm thinking of buying. And they weren't ready to sell. But then again that night, they're like, Okay, we're in. So I bought the unit and now

Mary: Wow.

Kathleen Bokrossy: and then we kind of just like we did, like we kind of renovated and made it ours. So when people come in, it's a wow factor. It's like

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: it's very pretty, it's very spa like and My very good friend Monica, she helped me and she's like, Well, this is all you, Kath, because it's all my style. Like it started, we walked in

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: one store and I saw one one picture on the wall. It was like a three three pieces, and I'm like, this is what I like. And it was kind of like rose gold. And so from that we did the whole facility. And they said, no, we don't have any left. And I said, can I have the one that's on the wall? And they said, Sure. So we took that one, and then from there, it's just like And people come and we really we're all about like strategic coach with the food and we feed them very very well. Like people love

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: and they want to tell their friends, and so so that's that's great. So when people come for the hands on and they love it, and we also have people coming from all over all over Canada, like for some of our programs, and I love seeing

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: that. Somebody who's made a trip from BC or Manitoba or Alberta to fly To invest in themselves because

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I see other people that are on the Facebook groups. Who knows about Free C E? Who knows? And it's like, wow, it's not about checkbox. It's not about just putting in your hours, right? It's like looking

Mary: Mm. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: at a course that you're going to take that's going to make an impact on you as a clinician and it's going to make you feel happy, engaged. You're learning, you're feeling great.

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: gonna affect your patience and it's going to affect your practice, right? So don't look for the free stuff. And but there are like cream of the crop people who they want they want that. So we've been here for this long and we've had other people along the way like kind of see if they can offer but I think I have more grit that I keeps I keep going.

Mary: You're pushing through no matter what. And the thing that I is remarkable to me, like I think about the it's a clinical field. And so it would be very easy to treat it like a very utilitarian. You must know this thing from this textbook. You must follow these rules and check these boxes. And probably there's a lot of there's a lot of related fields that are like that. I it sounds like what you've done. Is when you say elevate the hygienist experience in learning, but also in

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yes.

Mary: life and in development and in celebrating who you are and what you do. Like there's a quote from I don't know where I got it, but from about Nike. I think it was Dan Wyden. Wyden and Kennedy is the agency that worked at has worked with Nike for years. And he says, Nike didn't find the power of advertising. It found the power of its own voice or their own voice. And what

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yes.

Mary: I what I'm reading, what I'm hearing you talk about is. the identity of being a dental hygienist and the importance of it and celebrating that and investing in ourselves and and and doing it with, you know, wonderful food and beautiful things around you that's in keeping with the life you want to live. Like to me, it's not about just the job to do, which is no

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: X, Y, Z about, you know, whatever topic, right? Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, I know. And there's so many there's so many great dental practices like the one that you go to. There's so many great dentists

Mary: Mm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: out there and they when I see those people, they're like the whole team is like thriving and they're all loving it and happy. And then you see those ones that are like not really paying attention to what matters the most and that's, you know, get letting them get the instruments that they need to get, right? If we don't

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: have the right instruments, we're not providing the care. We're hurting ourselves ergonomically. There's so many things. They feel like they can't move in their practice because they can't get the things, not even the things that they want, but the things that they need to be the best mental professional that they can be, right? So it's like, it's like starts at it starts at the top too and then it's like if you they

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: don't find that practice, it's not suited for you, then you you leave and you find the practice that's suited for you, right? Where you can grow. Because a lot of people lose their lose their love for the profession just because of their environment, right? So we talk a

Mary: Totally.

Kathleen Bokrossy: lot about that too so that they are aware that this isn't you don't have to compromise. You don't have to settle, right? There's so many

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: great down practices out there. And I I love

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: those practices, yeah.

Mary: Yeah, I that's so wonderful. Okay, final question, Area, for you. So after all of these things, the the big decisions you've made, the challenges along the way, can you can you talk about who you are today after having all of these experiences and what you believe about the world now that you might not have if you hadn't gone through all of that?

Kathleen Bokrossy: Who I am today after going through

Mary: Mm. Like if you hadn't Yeah, yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: if I didn't go through all the things.

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: It's funny because I'm not the same person as I was years ago.

Mary: Right.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I think fundamentally I am. I'm still like a good person and a kind person. But when I look at who I was, even when I started RDHU, like I was gonna tell you a little bit about S Sally Hogs Hogshead as well.

Mary: Head yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Because she I was introduced to her through, you know, the Odd Love Marketing and just that group of people. so I did her assessment and I I it was like I think life changing for me as well. because

Mary: wow.

Kathleen Bokrossy: it allowed me to not try to be somebody else. I it gave me the confidence to be who I am, right? So

Mary: Mm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: it's like You know, I I used to be really nervous. I couldn't speak in front of people. And when I was younger, I used to I used to stutter when I was when I was younger. And I came

Mary: wow, okay.

Kathleen Bokrossy: seven we had seven people in our house and it was a small house and I could never get my I could never get anything out. And they just just spit it out. Remember my sister always saying, just spit it out, but I you couldn't get anything out. And it

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: was like And so th that created some anxiety, right? So I

Mary: Mm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I was fine one on one with people, but I could not talk in a room with more than three people. Like it was bad.

Mary: Wow.

Kathleen Bokrossy: So for me, when I was starting RDHU, I was nervous and I was like, I can't even I didn't even want to introduce the people that I'm bringing in here. You know, I mean I was so like, you know, just not that person. Like you know how they say a lot of people don't want to speak in in like there was two things that they fear and that's death and or saying say and death.

Mary: Some people yeah, it's to ten percent of people would rather die than public speak.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: And only ten percent love it. And then everybody else in the middle has different relate and then it's also about exposure and stuff like that. Like I Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: confidence. Yeah. And just and so like I remember like doing this assessment with her and then discovering I'm the people's champion. Yeah. So like my two powers, like one is passion and and one is power. I forget what they what they called it. It was like your I think it was like the advantage, power, I had power and passion. So I'm the people's champion.

Mary: Mm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: So it allowed me to see how the world sees me. And if I lean into my own unique traits that be myself, and once I switched over and I started to even change my emails from not being so corporate to, you know, talking to that one person, you know, adding

Mary: Hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: the smiley face or the exclamation mark. being who I am and feeling confident in who I am and being proud of who I am that was like a huge thing for me and then it changed the way I present and so now I know that people like when I tell stories. I'll still have stats and studies, we have to, but I s throw in my stories and, you know, I've had a lot of nice compliments over the years and being

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: asked to come back and I've spoken in so many like places and

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: you know, in front of thousands of people. And, you know, yeah. So

Mary: That's incredible. And doesn't it feel so good to have the inside, like who you are on the inside, line up with who you can be on the outside? Like I feel

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: like in life as kids, we learn what's suitable inside a family and school, et cetera. We kind of modify our behavior to fit in because we we need to fit in, like we need connection for survival. And then we spend a good part of our adult lives trying to return back to that true self. And it sounds like

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: In that moment, like you gave yourself permission. The Sally Hog's head was like a moment of recognition of it. like can you think about because I I I always wonder this too. I know that it was in my 40s that I felt like, I'm really good at some things

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: and I love them and I'm okay with it. And also I'm an optimist and I'm this kind of open, I like open book, you know, put it out there, put myself out there person, instead of trying to be guarded. It took me that long to realize th some of those things. I I wonder if it's if it's comes with age, if yeah, yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I think I was the same. Yeah. I was about the same age too. It's like looking back if I could tell my you know, my other self, my younger self, like have confidence

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: in yourself and and believe in yourself. And no one people want you to succeed when you're in front of a room. So my daughter is very like, you know, she's very shy to speak in front of and she's a chemical engineer. She's now working for Irving

Mary: Wow.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Shipyard out in and she had to manage a meeting with a hundred people. And I said, Jill,

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: you are so smart. you have wonderful things. Nobody's looking at you and judging you. And so a lot of a lot of people think that people are judging them, but they're not. They're they want

Mary: No.

Kathleen Bokrossy: you to succeed up there and they're just listening. So I feel like when I switched my messaging to, my God, what am I gonna say? they're gonna do this and this, when I started thinking about when I'm speaking. I'm thinking about what are they hearing, right? What message

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: are they giving? And then everything changed. How am I helping these people? Right. And when I'm being

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: authentic and I'm, you know, really in like in the trenches with them and we're like, we're doing this. And, you know, really like not talking down to them, right? Not sometimes people

Mary: Right.

Kathleen Bokrossy: they put themselves up, right? Then that's not always best for the audience, right?

Mary: No, and then that's not even that would be so unnatural to who you are. But there is this instinct to be like, I have to be the person who knows things. So I must come off. Like I grew up in the consulting business. And I mean, early days of that business was like, you know the answer. And if you don't know the answer, you pretend you know the answer because you're supposed to know things. They're paying us for you to know things. And I mean, one of the biggest freedoms I gave given myself in the last decade or so, or what however long, is just say you don't know. Be like, that's a good question.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah,

Mary: We should figure that out, you know, like and then you know, all

Kathleen Bokrossy: yeah, yeah.

Mary: of a sudden you get to be a real person and have real connection. So yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: And it comes with confidence. It comes with experience, right? Like I feel really good

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: with who I am. I feel good about my my choices along the way. I feel good about the people that I've I've helped. I feel good about people who have helped me, people who have mentored me, companies that I get to work with. Like it's, you know, and when you have that confidence, I don't know, it ch it just shows in in everything. And and that's how you get through the the hard stuff, right? 'Cause there's always gonna be hard stuff. Yeah.

Mary: Right. You know who you are. Are there if there's a moment in the future when you doubt yourself and you're like, am I ready to do this? What would you say to yourself now that you know all of these things?

Kathleen Bokrossy: For my future self, I

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: think I would look back at some of my pictures and some of my experiences and just remind myself of who I am. Yeah,

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I think that's what I would do.

Mary: Yeah, I feel like that's maybe what you've always done on some level. The internal dialogue for you has been very connected to I meant to do this, my purpose is, so I'm gonna keep pushing, which is a beautiful thing.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. And yeah, and also like I feel like I'm not working as much as I was. Like I was

Mary: Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: all consumed and and I feel like now I live in the moment. I'm very present. you know, even like a couple years ago, or even last year, I was like, when people ask me, What's your hobby? And I'd be like, sending out a marketing email. That's what my email.

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: You know, 'cause I love it and it gives me you know, like it's like let's go right, it's a swimming pool kind of thing, like I've heard about with the Beatles and

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: But I that's where I that's where I

Mary: That's cute. I like that.

Kathleen Bokrossy: kind of got my energy. But I was just like, no, I s I have to have something else. Like there has to be more. You know, now my kids are all grown and like we have our cottage

Mary: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: and we spent a lot of time, like when they were younger, we go to the cottage on the weekends. I lived at the cottage most summers when they were young because I could run my business from there when it was a smaller business.

Mary: Amazing.

Kathleen Bokrossy: And then as it grew, I had people and I could still spend a lot of time, but I was able to to do that and then we had a place. in elikaville for our skiing so we go there on on the weekend so it was it it was nice and then now the kids are gone and and it's just like it's a whole different life right it's just it's

Mary: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: because they were big part they were

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: my life right now they're gone I still see them and stuff but they're not

Mary: Mm-hmm. Now they're gone.

Kathleen Bokrossy: I never I never really planned for this part. It was like that's my heart hurts

Mary: You know, I'm having so many car I know your kids are older than my kids. My kids are 19 and 21. So I'm having my own version of them leaving. And it is like and it's funny because being so invested and excited about my career and you know, you love what you do. I thought when they left that I'd be like, I got this. I've got my

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. Yeah.

Mary: life. I've done a good job because they're happy leaving and that's the thing they're meant to do.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: And boy wasn't it soul crushing. Like the day my son went to university for the first time, like so he's our oldest, I had to text him and be because obviously I was driving there with him, but I couldn't speak without crying. And I'm like, who

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: is this person? And I had to say to him, like, don't worry about this. You this you're doing exactly what you're meant to do. I'm so excited for you. I'm

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. Yeah.

Mary: just a little bit weird today. And don't worry about mom. Cause like the last thing I want is for him to be like. My mom's a disaster because

Kathleen Bokrossy: Well

Mary: I'm leaving. And I was like, I did I was like the person who wasn't gonna be like that. But it is

Kathleen Bokrossy: I know.

Mary: like I'm having so many conversations with women this age, and many of them professional entrepreneurs who have a lot going on and still feeling like now what? Like, you know, so much of the current of life leads you to career, marriage, partnership, kids. Grow the career, grow the kids. Now you're like, okay, what happens

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: now? And it's certainly like, you know, Dan Sullivan will say, you know, you're only old when your future is smaller than your past. And like I, and yet I think you do too, like I have this vision of the future of how exciting it is and how much I have to offer the world. So I have all of that. But then at the same time, it's like Tuesday and it's quiet at home. And you're like, it's just I mean, we

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah.

Mary: we have two dogs and two kittens. Like I'm just like populating the house with with animal energy 'cause the kids are gone, you know?

Kathleen Bokrossy: because you got another dog. So we didn't we don't remember we lost our dog a couple years ago. so that that was heartbreaking. I know and I just don't know if I could

Mary: Yes. We did. I know.

Kathleen Bokrossy: do it again, but but I'm looking forward to having grandkids and and I was gonna say I started playing piano again. I haven't played in like you

Mary: good.

Kathleen Bokrossy: know in thirty years, forty years, because it was like in the eighties last time I played.

Mary: That's incredible. Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: So I started playing again.

Mary: that's beautiful.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. It's so fun. And now I play every day.

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: It's like I I'm not great, but I'm not bad. And it's just It's my topic. Yeah. It's beautiful, classical. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm having

Mary: No, that's a ma and then you're making music, like yeah. I think that's beautiful. Mm-hmm. And

Kathleen Bokrossy: fun with that. And yeah. And just living

Mary: Yeah.

Kathleen Bokrossy: living up north is lovely. And then coming down to I would love that. Best friends forever.

Mary: Mm-hmm. Now that we're best friends. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Forever. Forever. I love it. Well

Kathleen Bokrossy: I know, I just I just adored meeting you and yeah.

Mary: I feel the same. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think it's cool that we know each other at this time of life because I think this is a whole interesting time. And I love meeting women who are still in the I wanna build mode and do things and solve problems and and and and and and also enjoy the freedom that comes with accomplishment that comes with you know, having a team and all that. Like it's like it's it yeah, it's not it's not Either or you can do all the things, you know? Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah. Yeah. I know because it's funny because I feel like sometimes people think that I that it's me that does everything. Like, you don't do

Mary: Mm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: all your posts and you don't know. I have a great team. Like I I couldn't do what I do if I didn't have like we have a fabulous. I'm so fortunate to work with great mostly our women, but with some great men too.

Mary: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kathleen Bokrossy: but yeah, I'm Yeah, we couldn't do what we want to do if we didn't have the right people behind us.

Mary: Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible. Well, Kath, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for being on this episode with me.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yes. Thank you for having me.

Mary: yes, it's such a joy. And I can't wait for other people to hear your story because you're an inspiration. You know, there's people

Kathleen Bokrossy: Thank you.

Mary: out there in the world that are like, I know that I could solve a problem or I could do something better, or I could, you know, and

Kathleen Bokrossy: Wow.

Mary: you have these repeated examples where you knowing who you are, this sense of a guiding purpose of who you want to serve, that that just gave you along with resilience and the stick toitiveness like the drive but that gave you this this career that maybe you didn't think was gonna end up like this but like if you look back at it it looks like holy smokes like you really have knocked down all of these things to help elevate the the experience for dental hygienists like it's pretty incredible. Yeah. So right on. Okay.

Kathleen Bokrossy: Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that. You're doing great things too, and I appreciate you. So thank you so much.

Mary: Yeah, my pleasure. Okay. Until next time. I Thank you everybody. So I'm gonna

Kathleen Bokrossy: All right. All right. Thank you for joining us. Bye.